Just been watching...

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...The FA Cup's 50 Greatest Moments on BBC2, and the Arsenal 1999 FA Cup tie was in there in the top twenty. All the usual pundits giving it all the usual "the amazing spirit of the cup" and "only a club like Arsenal" twaddle, which always raises my hackles. You see, I, and now you, know what actually happened that day. Not on the pitch, or on the touchline, but up in the Directors' Box. One of my best mates was up there, sitting next to David Dein. He was helping them find a new shirt sponsor, their deal with JVC about to end. As soon as Overmars knocked it into the net, David Dein turned to my mate and said "this is a disaster, the name of the club will be mud and it'll wipe millions of the value of the sponsorship deal". He then summoned a minion and dispatched him to the dressing room to ORDER Arsène Wenger to offer a replay. Spirit of the Cup, my arse. Spirit of Maximising Commercial Profit, more like.
 

Wrong Arsenal FA Cup tie, I'm afraid. That was the semi at Old Trafford, where coincidentally, I was sat next to the same chap who was sitting next to David Dein several years previously (he's an Arsenal fan).
 
I've never understood the bitterness from so many Blades towards Arsenal regarding the 99 cup replay. With all due respect Flashing Blade, I don't actually "now know" what happened just because you have shared a story told to you by your mate. It's a bit less third or fourth hand than some of the new manager rumours going around, but if I accept it and give that as a reason to someone else, it'll be "I read on a forum from a poster, (whose name I don't know), who has a friend, who says...."
Even if it is true, what does it matter if it was driven by commercial reasons? Reasons of reputation and honour are only driven by what other people think, so there's always a way to put a negative angle on it.
Clubs win games with offside goals, diving for penalties, horendous tackles, etc etc. It doesn't (though it should) ruin reputations and any outrage lasts as long as the next match. The only people who would have been really outraged would have been Blades, and I don't know many teams who are bothered about that.
I also don't agree with those who say the match should have been replayed at the Lane. You can't add goals on and take goals off willy nilly to come up with a final score. It was voided, not turned into a draw.
So for my part, I have a lot of respect for Arsenal and Wenger for voiding a match they'd won when they really didn't have to.
 
I've never understood the bitterness from so many Blades towards Arsenal regarding the 99 cup replay. With all due respect Flashing Blade, I don't actually "now know" what happened just because you have shared a story told to you by your mate. It's a bit less third or fourth hand than some of the new manager rumours going around, but if I accept it and give that as a reason to someone else, it'll be "I read on a forum from a poster, (whose name I don't know), who has a friend, who says...."
Even if it is true, what does it matter if it was driven by commercial reasons? Reasons of reputation and honour are only driven by what other people think, so there's always a way to put a negative angle on it.
Clubs win games with offside goals, diving for penalties, horendous tackles, etc etc. It doesn't (though it should) ruin reputations and any outrage lasts as long as the next match. The only people who would have been really outraged would have been Blades, and I don't know many teams who are bothered about that.
I also don't agree with those who say the match should have been replayed at the Lane. You can't add goals on and take goals off willy nilly to come up with a final score. It was voided, not turned into a draw.
So for my part, I have a lot of respect for Arsenal and Wenger for voiding a match they'd won when they really didn't have to.
You weren't there then. That day was an absolute disgrace and all the Arsenal fans outside couldn't look the furious Blades in the eye, I've never seen an angrier set of fans than the United fans after that match. It was cheating pure and simple and EVERYONE in the stadium that day knew it.
 
Not cheating since there was no infringement against any law of the game. Did,however, go against the normal etiquette in such situations which is as bad imho
 
Was the 1993 semi final in the top 50? I didn't see it all.
 
Hamburg Blade... Admittedly you don't "know now" just because I told you what happened, but then what does one "know" about anything? Unless you witness something with your own eyes, you are reliant on other people telling you what happened. And often even when you witness something with your own eyes, you still don't know what actually happened, you only know what you saw, which is invariably just a small part of a bigger picture. I'm not having a pop at you by the way, I'm just saying that we are all reliant on other people's interpretation of things for just about everything.

And, for what it's worth, I don't mean to have a go at Arsenal for "cheating" or whatever - my annoyance, both at the time and still many years later, is NOT at Arsenal for what they did, it's at those who use the incident to demonstrate the life-affirming "spirit of The Cup" or to affirm Arsenal's inherent decency. It was primarily a commercially-based decision (which incidentally I have no problem with (we all have to look after our own interests as best we can)), it's the making out that the offer of the replay was some grand gracious gesture on Wenger's part for some wonderfully noble reason that narks me, that's all (e.g. Wikipedia has it that "Arsenal's boss Arsene Wenger wrote himself into FA Cup folklore with an act of sportsmanship that saw him offer to replay the game")

I still remember, knowing what I did, how much Wenger being presented with a special "AXA Spirit of the Cup" award on the pitch before the replayed match, stuck in my throat.
 
Also just happened to be Seaman's greatest ever save that day, as voted by the man himself
I remember him making a cracking save at the lane in the cup.. Think it was a veart header when we won 1-0????
 
It's Saturday night and it's time for bitter drunk postings:D
 
Hamburg Bladet "Arsenal's boss Arsene Wenger wrote himself into FA Cup folklore with an act of sportsmanship that saw him offer to replay the game")
.

Regarding the link - thanks for that - and Kanu aboutt his career and particularly when he left Portsmouth, well, my nose bleeds for the poor lad.

If true, no wonder Portsmouth struggled financially

"On 30 July, Kanu agreed to leave Portsmouth, but he reiterated that he was still in a dispute over the unpaid wages that the club owed him.[24] In April 2013 he confirmed that he had dropped the case and let the club off the £3 million they owed him.[25]"
 
I've always had a soft spot for Arsenal. They made 1993 somewhat bearable!

Oh, and the BBC build up to the FA Cup was fantastic, although I'm sure they had one eye on the BAFTA with all the close ups of cups of Bovril and turnstiles (etc)
 
ZoneManWilf, you've completely misunderstood my post and, I think, the OP's point; it's not about what happened on the day, it's about people's reaction to the offer of a replay.

TheFlashingBlade, I don't agree at all, we don't rely on other people for our interpretation on everything, we experience things ourself and have the where-with-all to come to our own conclusions. The people around us influence us and can inform us, various media is available to us, from the Internet to the TV, but even there there is almost always a number of conflicting viewpoints. It's all a matter of degree. For my part, as I said, I don't take anything that I read on a forum as true without a large dose of salt, especially if it comes from someone I don't know, especially if it's 2nd hand information. (and as for Wikipedia, well...) If I had a friend I trusted, I would likely believe him if he told me something he knew first hand.
I tend to find people who go round repeating things that they've heard from someone 2nd hand are people who most often make fools of themselves.

As far as the incident itself, I agree too little has been made of the goal that caused the controversy and too much has been made of Wenger's generosity, but that's typical of the sycophantic nature of the football media towards the big few clubs (/ London clubs), which we all know too well.
Despite what you say, I don't believe that a potential sponsor can have had such a massive influence on the club. Arsenal are bigger than that - another sponsor would have stepped in and I can't believe that the Arsenal board would have been happy that a (not yet signed up) sponsor could dictate policy. Was it a factor? Maybe, but if the board and Wenger had said "stuff em (ie us)", I'm sure they could and would have.

But there you go, I expect we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

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