Is it time to debate clough failed tenure

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finlaytheblade

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I like many others thought nIgel clough was a good appointment and the disappointment in his failure hit the club hard after backing him with a good budget.where did he get it wrong my thoughts are !!!
1) failure to get the players he was after signed up.
2) can't say I am a big fan of Collins or Butler but his casting to the bin of both was crazy management,
as the season progressed we were being punished more and more at defending set pieces .How he could
go into the double header with Swindon leaving Collins out was balmy,Collins came back from Vale fit and full of confidence after he played a big part in there decent run in .What had he done for clough to completely cast him out ?we couldn't score a goal from corners he has got 3 already this season,playing Alcock at centre back when Collins was available is treason in my eyes.
3)Although I like brayford paying the money we did for him was stupid when we had needs in other areas
(Centre back as he had sacked Collins ,strong midfield player and of course a mobile centre forward).
The board obviously backed him with a big budget but did he spend it wisely?
I supported clough all the way ,I was wrong maybe the previouse seasons winning streak clouded my
Judgement.I did beleave he new what he was doing but now I wonder if he wanted it enough,he has had
a comfortable career so far in football ( derby and us are his first failures will he get a crack somewhere else?).
4) He came across as an arrogant character bit like his dad without the man Management skills Brian had.
Reflecting on all this and more he really sacked himself the Collins and brayford situations hung him really.
Hopefully Nigel Adkins will do a lot better job and get us where we want to be he is finding it difficult signing the players he wants as clough did (smaller budget?) but he has a totally different approach to
management a more rounded warmer way with people I like that way of doing things.
 

What purpose does this serve?

Clough has gone, he failed his remit to get the team promoted. Along the way he gave us some spectacular results like islands in the sea of general mediocrity that was the overriding memory of his tenure.

He signed some players that could be described as baggage but he also signed players like Adams and Done who we are expecting to lead our team in the future, at least in the short term.

I can honestly say that I don't understand the need to bring Clough back on to the board at this point. We have a manager who we hope will bring promotion, why post about one that didn't?

Also, this:


And this:


;)
 
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No, but I will say the Brayford signing was just a crowd pleaser, was he a Clough signing or one by the board to appease the fans ? You could say the same about signing Billy Sharp was it to placate the fans as the board knew they were going to sell Murphy months before they did ............................. spend £500k and pocket £1m ???
 
No, but I will say the Brayford signing was just a crowd pleaser, was he a Clough signing or one by the board to appease the fans ? You could say the same about signing Billy Sharp was it to placate the fans as the board knew they were going to sell Murphy months before they did ............................. spend £500k and pocket £1m ???
Placate or not I would rather have Sharp than Murphy.
Murphy's plan to get in Scotland's Euro 16 squad has one rather large technical problem just at the moment :)
 
No, but I will say the Brayford signing was just a crowd pleaser, was he a Clough signing or one by the board to appease the fans ? You could say the same about signing Billy Sharp was it to placate the fans as the board knew they were going to sell Murphy months before they did ............................. spend £500k and pocket £1m ???
How can you pocket 1 million when 5 million is needed to balance the books every year while we,re in league 1
 

Far too negative, expectation was too high due to massive improvement he was on Weir (but someone who is half decent on Footy Manager would of been a improvement on Weir). But most importantly he was too negative and his team would sit back and desperately defend against Port Vale at home, they still do it now but nowhere near as bad.
 
We did all of our debating regarding Clough when he was given the sack.
 
But his sacking is still something of a mystery. We were all set to keep him on after the 5-5 v Swindon, and some of us actually thought he'd finally seen the light and would play a more attacking style this time around. He was given charge of the retained list, and Phipps had previously stated that we were in it for the long term with Clough and had ceased to be a sacking club.

Then following a meeting with the board, he was gone. Was it something he said at that meeting, or did the Prince (or McCabe) decide following that meeting that he wasn't the right man for the job after all?

The club's statements when Clough was sacked made no reference to the "in it for the long term" and "not a sacking club" comments. You can argue that he failed in our main ambition but his tenure wasn't a total failure. There were some fantastic performances, and we came the closest to European qualification than we have in most of our lifetimes. If we'd got past Hull and then lost to Arsenal in the FA Cup, we'd have been embarking on a Europa League campaign the following season.

I think Clough made too many enemies and on the evidence so far we're probably better off with Adkins, but I also think there's a good chance we'd have been challenging for automatic this season under Clough. If we weren't he'd surely have gone by Christmas.
 
But his sacking is still something of a mystery. We were all set to keep him on after the 5-5 v Swindon, and some of us actually thought he'd finally seen the light and would play a more attacking style this time around. He was given charge of the retained list, and Phipps had previously stated that we were in it for the long term with Clough and had ceased to be a sacking club.

Then following a meeting with the board, he was gone. Was it something he said at that meeting, or did the Prince (or McCabe) decide following that meeting that he wasn't the right man for the job after all?

The club's statements when Clough was sacked made no reference to the "in it for the long term" and "not a sacking club" comments. You can argue that he failed in our main ambition but his tenure wasn't a total failure. There were some fantastic performances, and we came the closest to European qualification than we have in most of our lifetimes. If we'd got past Hull and then lost to Arsenal in the FA Cup, we'd have been embarking on a Europa League campaign the following season.

I think Clough made too many enemies and on the evidence so far we're probably better off with Adkins, but I also think there's a good chance we'd have been challenging for automatic this season under Clough. If we weren't he'd surely have gone by Christmas.


If Clough was still here and performing as well as Adkins is the sack would have been a lot sooner than Xmas.
 
What purpose does this serve?
I would rather grate my balls. Move on

Too true. It's been done to death. But...

I like many others thought nIgel clough was a good appointment

I think this is where some people get it wrong. We hoped that Clough would be a good appointment, just as we do with Adkins. The well of goodwill towards Clough was deep and it's his fault it went sour.

There's absolutely no guarantees with a new manager. Will Klopp turn Liverpool round? Will Allardyce save Sunderland? Who knows?

We live in hope and, God knows, we're due a decent manager. But if it doesn't work out, it won't be anything to do with supporters' impatience.

[QUOTE="Dkc, post: 850488, member: 6463"

Then following a meeting with the board, he was gone. Was it something he said at that meeting, or did the Prince (or McCabe) decide following that meeting that he wasn't the right man for the job after all?

[/QUOTE]

We'll probably never know, but my guess is at the meeting Clough would have been asked about 'Where do we go from here?' and Clough - with his legendary pig-headeness - would have replied along the lines of 'More of the same.' The decision-makers would have known this was unacceptable, as did the fans.
 
If Clough was still here and performing as well as Adkins is the sack would have been a lot sooner than Xmas.

Interesting point. If we'd been bobbling around 6th or 7th, I doubt Clough have been given half as much rope as Adkins - even with a new, more attacking style of play.
 
The utterly confusing part was Clough identifying exactly what needed to be done and then doing the opposite.

He put turned Weir's team around, improved the players already there and brought in some decent performers, said that he needed three or four quality additions, and then signed twenty odd mediocre squad players. And fell out with a couple of first teamers leaving us woefully short in central defence.

We're suffering the hangover of his mistakes right now. Scratch fifteen players off the wage bill and making new additions would be much easier.
 
Whilst the majority on here seem to want to castigate Clough for all United's ills - I for one was really disappointed that he didn't make it work!
He signed some good players Brayford,Done and Adams excellent examples, but he is also responsible for some that didn't or hasn't worked out as well as both he and the rest of the support expected namely Higdon, Alcock, James Wallace, Coutts, MacArthy, MacGahey et al ! He was also the manager that oversaw Maguires departure to Hull City .......how much say he had we will never know !
He was obstinate and belligerent over Collins, Butler, JCR but we don't know the true story................ !
However, unfortunately despite all the hype Mr Adkins is faring little better
He has signed a good player Sharp, but he is also responsible for the purchase or loans of Woolford, Edgar, Sammon, who are little better (or not) than what we already had at our disposal.............. he also made MacEverley captain and Edgar is looking just as bad a loan as MacArthy did ! - So much for recruiting from higher divisions !
He is the manager that oversaw the sale of Jamie Murphy, again how much saw he had we will never know !
Performances have been ordinary at best and dire at worst !
So, are we any better off with Adkins.........................jury is still out but by my reckoning we appear to have spent a lot of money in hiring and firing to be in exactly the same place as we were 12 months ago !
 
Whilst the majority on here seem to want to castigate Clough for all United's ills - I for one was really disappointed that he didn't make it work!
He signed some good players Brayford,Done and Adams excellent examples, but he is also responsible for some that didn't or hasn't worked out as well as both he and the rest of the support expected namely Higdon, Alcock, James Wallace, Coutts, MacArthy, MacGahey et al ! He was also the manager that oversaw Maguires departure to Hull City .......how much say he had we will never know !
He was obstinate and belligerent over Collins, Butler, JCR but we don't know the true story................ !
However, unfortunately despite all the hype Mr Adkins is faring little better
He has signed a good player Sharp, but he is also responsible for the purchase or loans of Woolford, Edgar, Sammon, who are little better (or not) than what we already had at our disposal.............. he also made MacEverley captain and Edgar is looking just as bad a loan as MacArthy did ! - So much for recruiting from higher divisions !
He is the manager that oversaw the sale of Jamie Murphy, again how much saw he had we will never know !
Performances have been ordinary at best and dire at worst !
So, are we any better off with Adkins.........................jury is still out but by my reckoning we appear to have spent a lot of money in hiring and firing to be in exactly the same place as we were 12 months ago !
That's football though. If you don't keep going forwards you go backwards.

We don't know, and will never know, whether we'd now be better off if Clough had stayed.

He might have brought the last pieces of his jigsaw in and we could be at the top of the table or it could have been a total disaster and we could be near the bottom of the table. Or somewhere in between.

But one thing I'm pretty sure of, if you run a club where the manager makes all the key recruitment decisions and is allowed to build his side as he sees fit, then when he's sacked there's always a strong possibility that some of the new players won't suit the new manager.
 
Clough a most baffling and counter productive move that were still feeling the effects of was not signing Connor coady...

The butler thing... Well, who knows, the Collins thing, again who knows, comes across like a spoiled child who wants his own way all the time..

We need to stick with Adkins, cause Adams wouldn't have been on the pitch last week to score those two had clough been in charge, cause he'd have been sent on loan or benched.....
 

We'll probably never know, but my guess is at the meeting Clough would have been asked about 'Where do we go from here?' and Clough - with his legendary pig-headeness - would have replied along the lines of 'More of the same.' The decision-makers would have known this was unacceptable, as did the fans.

I've posted this a few times before but my mate had a chat with Jim in the car park one Satdi morning on a game day not so long ago and asked him about why Clough was sacked. Jim mentioned either inability or unwillingness to fix broken relationships with players.

I wasn't there so I don't know what exactly was said but given that this was the answer volunteered it must have been an important factor I'd've thought.

This conversation took place out in the open with other people listening on, point being that this wasn't some high-level top-secret itk meeting - and if a journalist asked about Clough's sacking I'm pretty sure this (at least in part) is the answer they would get.
 

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