Any clues as to why we should bother?

[Blade58]

South stand planning permission time extension sought

Seems a bit odd?

Thought this had turned into a pipe dream rather than a possibility

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/126858-

 

[Wapping Blade]

It's just process not letting it time out so they won't have to apply again if it ever happens.

 

[wizadry]

We could easy fill 40 odd thousand couldn't we?Just look at all those blades that signed a certain petition not so long ago,there were thousands of us

 

[boo radley]

When does the piggies run out? oh sorry I forget, they get housing benefits from the council and special permission from the FA due to the run down nature of the area!

 

[vorpal blade]

This gives me the opportunity to use the phrase,

a. Go back to the drawing board almost literally except we draw on computers, not boards these days.

and the word,

b. Rigmarole

Extending the planning permission saves having to a. with consequent costs (fees etc.) and all that b.

 

[Pinchy]

We could easy fill 40 odd thousand couldn't we?Just look at all those blades that signed a certain petition not so long ago,there were thousands of us

I know you jest but I'm sure when we get back to the PL we could get 40,000 for maybe half a dozen games (far more than Southampton could ever dream of!)

 

[vorpal blade]

If we got back to the premiership and did OK, I'm sure we'd get crowds that big quite often, if we could accommodate them.

 

[metalblade]

To be a force in the Premiership we would need stadium capacity of at least 40.000, the more the better, just have to get there that's the hard bit. Then we might see some game changing investment.

 

[judge]

Would be great having twenty thousand empty seats every week and telling everyone how massive we are

 

[grafikhaus]

Would be great having twenty thousand empty seats every week and telling everyone how massive we are

Agreed. Coventry play in a massive, souless bowl where three-quarters of the seats are empty. Sunderland aren't far off (and will be when they eventually get relegated). Hillsborough is a museum piece where, even when they dish out thousands of freebies like the Reading game, is a silent shithole.

Give me BDTBL any day. A modern, suitable ground where the atmosphere (tomorrow & Saints game to name just two) is amazing.

​

 

[Bladesway]

Bit of a damned if they do damned if they don't here. If they don't then they are seen as short sighted if they do they are seen as deluded.

 

[Bladesway]

Hillsborough is a museum piece where, even when they dish out thousands of freebies like the Reading game, is a silent shithole.

But they do it in a higher division than us so perhaps we shouldn't be so gleeful.

 

[Golden Gordon]

Talking of ground improvements, I recently found a copy of The Star dated August 10th 1982 with the headline 'LANE SUPER CENTRE PROJECT UNVEILED'. The front page, with picture of proposed development, goes on to say United have submitted plans for the £10 million pound, five year project. It
is a very interesting find. Anyway, another point to this post is does anyone collect this sort of stuff as memorabilia? If so it's free to a good home.

 

[breeny]

To be a force in the Premiership we would need stadium capacity of at least 40.000, the more the better, just have to get there that's the hard bit. Then we might see some game changing investment.

With the new tv deals attendance doesn't matter as much. Teams get 60 mill for fuck all!!

 

[JohnDenver]

But they do it in a higher division than us so perhaps we shouldn't be so gleeful.

Nope. Revel in all their failures, all their inadequacies, all their tiresome conceits.

 

[Bladesman]

We could have a radical feminist section in the stand.

 

[Dkc]

I posted this suggestion in another thread, and may as well post it here too

if we ever get back in the Premier League and want to expand BDTBL, I think a "Barca solution" might work at the Lane. Imagine an extra lower tier at all four sides of the ground. There's definitely room for it, and it would be more aesthetically pleasing than the same ground with a massive, double-decker kop.

With the cash you get in the PL these days we could definitely afford it. There would be time to at least dig down and relay a new pitch during the close season. Then the work could be carried out, one side at a time, on non-match days.

We have a lot of space to spare between the bottom of the stands and the pitch. Imagine a BDTBL but with seats tight to the pitch, QPR-style. It would be amazing.

 

[Sirius]

I posted this suggestion in another thread, and may as well post it here too

if we ever get back in the Premier League and want to expand BDTBL, I think a "Barca solution" might work at the Lane. Imagine an extra lower tier at all four sides of the ground. There's definitely room for it, and it would be more aesthetically pleasing than the same ground with a massive, double-decker kop.

With the cash you get in the PL these days we could definitely afford it. There would be time to at least dig down and relay a new pitch during the close season. Then the work could be carried out, one side at a time, on non-match days.

We have a lot of space to spare between the bottom of the stands and the pitch. Imagine a BDTBL but with seats tight to the pitch, QPR-style. It would be amazing.[/QUOTE

Manchester United's pitch area has been raised, or lowered to such an extent ,over several remakes, that it appears to be dangerous to charge a player down the slope. I am more than happy with the way things are at the Lane.

When cricket was hit for six, we had an opportunity to turn the pitch round, so that there would have been more home supporters behind the goal. If memory serves, that was discounted on account of the sun blinding the keepers.
Lets keep this in perspective. After all. with the facilities as they are. Our ground IS of Premiership quality. Shall we make a little more progress before being carried away?

 

[grafikhaus]

Talking of ground improvements, I recently found a copy of The Star dated August 10th 1982 with the headline 'LANE SUPER CENTRE PROJECT UNVEILED'. The front page, with picture of proposed development, goes on to say United have submitted plans for the £10 million pound, five year project. It
is a very interesting find. Anyway, another point to this post is does anyone collect this sort of stuff as memorabilia? If so it's free to a good home.

I remember this very well. It was to be called 'The Bramall Centre' and was the brainchild of then-Chairman, Reg Brealey. It involved turning the pitch through 90 degrees, all-seater, all-covered and with a running track. Pretty standard stuff now, but back then, the Lane was - apart from the South Stand and Bramall Lane Stand - very much derelict. Privately funded, it was all pretty revolutionary stuff.

Needless to say, Sheffield City Council threw up objections - they didn't want United competing with their beloved Wednesday - and cited 'complaints from local residents'. I believe about 18 people objected but it was all pretty deperate from the Council. After all, it wasn't a new-build, the ground has been there for ever. (As if the 'local residents' pulled open their curtains one morning, saw a football ground in the vicinity and thought 'Fuck me! I didn't notice that when we moved in!'

If you think the Council is bad now, back then it was dominated by the 'Wednesday Mafia' - such luminaries as Blunkett, Betts, Hattersley etc. and it was referred to as the Soviet Republic of South Yorkshire - red flag flown on the Town Hall, permission for the IRA to march through town etc. A period I believe we're still suffering for now, but I digress.

As predictable as the Council's objections were, I wrote a letter to The Star with my thoughts. Back then, letters critical of the Council were strengt verboten. The Council was, by far, the biggest advertiser in this rag - page after page of non-jobs for the chosen few. To my amazement, Pravda - sorry The Star - actually printed my letter, which filled half a page complete with artists impression of The Bramall Centre.

Mr. Brealey saw the letter and invited me down for a chat, showed me the plans etc. He seemed a very nice bloke but I warned him of the powers he was up against. The rest is history. The development was turned down and the Council continued it's one-eyed 'scheme' to ensure we would never compete with Leeds.

 

[SwissBlade]

We could have a radical feminist section in the stand.

The Charlie Webster stand

 

[grafikhaus]

But they do it in a higher division than us so perhaps we shouldn't be so gleeful.

Au contraire, Bladesway. If it wasn't for the large away support a lot of teams in the higher division bring, Wendy and our crowds would be very similar.

 

[boo radley]

I remember this very well. It was to be called 'The Bramall Centre' and was the brainchild of then-Chairman, Reg Brealey. It involved turning the pitch through 90 degrees, all-seater, all-covered and with a running track. Pretty standard stuff now, but back then, the Lane was - apart from the South Stand and Bramall Lane Stand - very much derelict. Privately funded, it was all pretty revolutionary stuff.

Needless to say, Sheffield City Council threw up objections - they didn't want United competing with their beloved Wednesday - and cited 'complaints from local residents'. I believe about 18 people objected but it was all pretty deperate from the Council. After all, it wasn't a new-build, the ground has been there for ever. (As if the 'local residents' pulled open their curtains one morning, saw a football ground in the vicinity and thought 'Fuck me! I didn't notice that when we moved in!'

If you think the Council is bad now, back then it was dominated by the 'Wednesday Mafia' - such luminaries as Blunkett, Betts, Hattersley etc. and it was referred to as the Soviet Republic of South Yorkshire - red flag flown on the Town Hall, permission for the IRA to march through town etc. A period I believe we're still suffering for now, but I digress.

As predictable as the Council's objections were, I wrote a letter to The Star with my thoughts. Back then, letters critical of the Council were strengt verboten. The Council was, by far, the biggest advertiser in this rag - page after page of non-jobs for the chosen few. To my amazement, Pravda - sorry The Star - actually printed my letter, which filled half a page complete with artists impression of The Bramall Centre.

Mr. Brealey saw the letter and invited me down for a chat, showed me the plans etc. He seemed a very nice bloke but I warned him of the powers he was up against. The rest is history. The development was turned down and the Council continued it's one-eyed 'scheme' to ensure we would never compete with Leeds.

It was going to be a 6 lane track. Like the Bislett in Norway. It might have been OK for a while but it would soon have been dated as 8 lanes was a requirement of the IAAF. If there was a chance to put 8 lanes in and it went ahead it would have been the premier stadium for athletics in this country and there would have been no need to build Don Valley. It would have been used more and more by the community throughout the week which the football club would have benefited from with very little if no running cost for the football. Imagine all that income from 83 till now.

 

[boo radley]

Au contraire, Bladesway. If it wasn't for the large away support a lot of teams in the higher division bring, Wendy and our crowds would be very similar.

Didn't Darren or someone add all the crowds up to find out they have had about a thousand more supporters than us over the years?

 

[vorpal blade]

Dkc, mentions the idea of digging down. When I was involved with the club in '96 I did suggest it. I don't think there is enough margin between pitch and stands all the way around to dig the pitch deeper and fill it with seats

BUT the Kop has to be demolished and rebuilt at sometime because it is simply not fit for purpose now. The proposal to add new seats to the back of the Kop wasn't viable (IMHO) because the outmoded state of the existing terraces was ignored.

So, if you were to rebuild the kop, theoretically it could be located closer to Shoreham Street (and therefore make more room to dig the pitch down) but that may present problems with planning vis a vis how close it would get to the houses there.

The other problem is that Bramall Lane is very low-lying, witness how close it is to the level of the River Sheaf, in other words, the water table. We know how prone the pitch is to mud in winter and I suspect that lowering the pitch would only make matters worse.

btw I remember Brealey's proposal for a running track, it coincided with the success of a local lad called Sebastian who could run a mile quite quickly (whatever happened to him?). I don't think that proposal envisaged turning the pitch by 90º, to accommodate the track instead they would have rebuilt the good old Spion Kop as a curved stand. (planning problems were encountered for reasons mentioned above and I think they proposed a hotel in the same building). There was a previous scheme in the 1960s ? designed when BDTBL was still a cricket ground which DID spin the pitch around 90º and would have been a logical development but that would have left Bramall Lane knackered for years. I can only think of Molineaux as an example of redeveloping an existing ground so comprehensively. They built a new stand behind the old one and then demolished the old stand. Many of us will remember the bizarre nature of Molineaux which as a result had a gap of about 30 yards from stand to touchline for years because of course, as happened here, Wolves ran out of cash because they built a new stand and so couldn't afford to rebuild the remaining 3 stands for 20 odd years.

Sorry to go on, but I've got some work to do and I'm trying to avoid doing it. If you have done, thanks for reading this pulp.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Dkc, mentions the idea of digging down. When I was involved with the club in '96 I did suggest it. I don't think there is enough margin between pitch and stands all the way around to dig the pitch deeper and fill it with seats

BUT the Kop has to be demolished and rebuilt at sometime because it is simply not fit for purpose now. The proposal to add new seats to the back of the Kop wasn't viable (IMHO) because the outmoded state of the existing terraces was ignored.

So, if you were to rebuild the kop, theoretically it could be located closer to Shoreham Street (and therefore make more room to dig the pitch down) but that may present problems with planning vis a vis how close it would get to the houses there.

The other problem is that Bramall Lane is very low-lying, witness how close it is to the level of the River Sheaf, in other words, the water table. We know how prone the pitch is to mud in winter and I suspect that lowering the pitch would only make matters worse.

btw I remember Brealey's proposal for a running track, it coincided with the success of a local lad called Sebastian who could run a mile quite quickly (whatever happened to him?). I don't think that proposal envisaged turning the pitch by 90º, to accommodate the track instead they would have rebuilt the good old Spion Kop as a curved stand. (planning problems were encountered for reasons mentioned above and I think they proposed a hotel in the same building). There was a previous scheme in the 1960s ? designed when BDTBL was still a cricket ground which DID spin the pitch around 90º and would have been a logical development but that would have left Bramall Lane knackered for years. I can only think of Molineaux as an example of redeveloping an existing ground so comprehensively. They built a new stand behind the old one and then demolished the old stand. Many of us will remember the bizarre nature of Molineaux which as a result had a gap of about 30 yards from pitch to touchline for years because of course, as happened here, Wolves ran out of cash because they built a new stand and so couldn't afford to rebuild the remaining 3 stands for 20 odd years.

Sorry to go on, but I've got some work to do and I'm trying to avoid doing it. If you have done, thanks for reading this pulp.

IF we get to the Premier League, just rebuild The Kop with proper legroom and facilities. The rest of the ground is plenty good enough.

 

[vorpal blade]

Its clearly too late now but if they hadn't thrown out Yorkshire in 1973 or whenever I think they could have developed a high 3 sided ground well away from the existing houses on John Street and it would have been the biggest cricket ground in the country. It may have been a bit like the Boca Juniors ground.

Because Bramall Lane is surrounded by houses, development has always been difficult in terms of gaining planning permissions, over-shadowing issues etc. What the club ought to have done years ago is to buy up houses in order to give the stadium more room to grow. Liverpool have done this (though there are serious implications for locals). But SUFC aren't LFC and never really had the need or the will to do this, witness the relative success of the two sides.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Its clearly too late now but if they hadn't thrown out Yorkshire in 1973 or whenever I think they could have developed a high 3 sided ground well away from the existing houses on John Street and it would have been the biggest cricket ground in the country. It may have been a bit like the Boca Juniors ground.

Because Bramall Lane is surrounded by houses, development has always been difficult in terms of gaining planning permissions, over-shadowing issues etc. What the club ought to have done years ago is to buy up houses in order to give the stadium more room to grow. Liverpool have done this (though there are serious implications for locals). But SUFC aren't LFC and never really had the need or the will to do this, witness the relative success of the two sides.

Mr Mcabe is planning to build more houses/flats near to The Kop instead. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.
We are a football club not an estate agent!

 

[vorpal blade]

I agree with you entirely Sothall, these schemes date back before the involvement the Prince and Phipps and I hope they realise how short-sighted the new homes were and how obstructive they are to the development of the stadium.

I might add, they were absolutely rubbish architecturally too.

Like I said, Bramall Lane is very hemmed in by houses already, the last thing you need are more narky residents objecting to planning proposals to properly, which is to say comprehensively re-build the Kop as MUST happen at some time in the future. I invite the board of directors to come and sit in the Kop and watch a match, then they would understand why we moan!

 

[Zanzibar]

IF we get to the Premier League, just rebuild The Kop with proper legroom and facilities. The rest of the ground is plenty good enough.

No it's not.
The Bramall Lane end is cramped and does not support segregation very well.
The family stand is cramped and isn't as high as it could have been.
South stand is ok and has possibilities for expansion.
The kop is....well....pathetic.
The ground has suffered from lack of imaginative forsight.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

This is what you call a stadium:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapporo_Dome