15 points from last 15 league games ...

[SUFC Handsworth]

... point a game over the last 3 months, that's relegation form in anyone's money.

Take away the four wins on the spin in August and we'd now be in the bottom 4. In 80/81 we won 4 out of the first 5 games, ditto this season. Conceding last minute equalisers, average teams turning up at the Lane and easily walking off with 2 points (in old money), dire performances, half-arsed couldn't care less attitude, all traits of the '81 team. Ditto this lot. Even the bloody shirts now and in '81 aren't/weren't proper red and white.

Two proper centre halves, proper ball winner in midfield and a proper target man, all leaders, in January or this lot goes down.

 

[Rodley]

Things can only get better. Small mercies but it sounded a better performance today.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Even the '81 team had the odd good game! Should have been 3 easy points today but we missed a hat full of chances, this is what relegation teams do.

 

[Barney]

I think it'd be very stupid to recruit in January. We'd still struggle to get even anywhere near the play-offs no matter how many we brought in, and to do that you'd have to offload a considerable amount anyway with the unbelievable size of the squad.

If that meant going down (very likely), then so be it. It might actually be a good thing for the long term for a variety of reasons.

1 - It might force McCabe to sell.
2 - Adkins might be sacked
3 - Adkins might resign
4 - A whole new squad will be built, under a new board and a new manager.

 

[SwissBlade]

Good thing is that there's some shit below us.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

I think it's essential we recruit in January, the last thing this club needs is another relegation.

 

[scouseblade]

Seriously, the negativity on the website is so demoralising. So we have a bad run (yes 15 points from 15 games is shocking) and all of a sudden we are looking doomed. Comeon. This is a shit run but we are not going to get relegated. Fuck it, I will bet anyone that we will be safe (yes I would rather be in the top 6) and comfortably at that. Please people lets have a bit more positivity

 

[SwissBlade]

I think it'd be very stupid to recruit in January. We'd still struggle to get even anywhere near the play-offs no matter how many we brought in, and to do that you'd have to offload a considerable amount anyway with the unbelievable size of the squad.

If that meant going down (very likely), then so be it. It might actually be a good thing for the long term for a variety of reasons.

1 - It might force McCabe to sell.
2 - Adkins might be sacked
3 - Adkins might resign
4 - A whole new squad will be built.

Bit of a nonsense post. Yes we need to reduce the squad size, but recruiting better players to help Adkins can only be a good thing.

I doubt Adkins will resign, the whole go down and rebuild has to be avoided.

As for McCabe selling if we go down, that's your most ridiculous part of your post. He'd lose a load of money and who would he sell to?

Personally I think January can't come soon enough. Should mean we'll be able to get a few more out and perhaps one or two in

 

[Barney]

Bit of a nonsense post. Yes we need to reduce the squad size, but recruiting better players to help Adkins can only be a good thing.

I doubt Adkins will resign, the whole go down and rebuild has to be avoided.

As for McCabe selling if we go down, that's your most ridiculous part of your post. He'd lose a load of money and who would he sell to?

Personally I think January can't come soon enough. Should mean we'll be able to get a few more out and perhaps one or two in

We're a lot more than one transfer window from being good enough to even reach the play offs.

Recruiting in January is just pointless in my opinion.

Wait till the end of the season to rip up contracts and start again. Preferably not under Adkins and with a bit of luck whilst still being in league one.

 

[alcoblade]

Good thing is that there's some shit below us.

But that shit keeps having the cheek to beat us.

UTB

 

[oldblade]

I think it'd be very stupid to recruit in January. We'd still struggle to get even anywhere near the play-offs no matter how many we brought in, and to do that you'd have to offload a considerable amount anyway with the unbelievable size of the squad.

If that meant going down (very likely), then so be it. It might actually be a good thing for the long term for a variety of reasons.

1 - It might force McCabe to sell.
2 - Adkins might be sacked
3 - Adkins might resign
4 - A whole new squad will be built, under a new board and a new manager.

People were saying that relegation might be a good thing when we crashed out of the Championship. It wasn't. In my view relegation is never a good thing. It just makes it even harder for us to get back to where we want to be.

 

[SwissBlade]

But that shit keeps having the cheek to beat us.

UTB

I was waiting to someone to pick a little flaw in my watertight argument.... Bugger,

 

[oldblade]

We're a lot more than one transfer window from being good enough to even reach the play offs.

Recruiting in January is just pointless in my opinion.

Wait till the end of the season to rip up contracts and start again. Preferably not under Adkins and with a bit of luck whilst still being in league one.

Surely it is better to secure our third division status by recruiting players in January who can do that. Major changes can still be made in the close season. The difference being we might then be challenging for promotion to the championship rather than to division one.

If relegation is considered to be a real possibility it would be totally irresponsible to fail to do something about that in January.

 

[SwissBlade]

We're a lot more than one transfer window from being good enough to even reach the play offs.

Recruiting in January is just pointless in my opinion.

Wait till the end of the season to rip up contracts and start again. Preferably not under Adkins and with a bit of luck whilst still being in league one.

Who mentioned play offs? It's about rebuilding this season, gradually. Recruiting now is vital, beds players in for next season

I also still believe that stability is the biggest thing for this club - sacking Adkins would be a mistake despite current form

 

[oldblade]

Good thing is that there's some shit below us.

None of which we are beating at the moment!

 

[spongebobblade]

Things can only get better. Small mercies but it sounded a better performance today.

It was better, not hugely but in the right direction. Having said that we haven't got a lot to compare it to after Tuesday. In a nutshell we are still piss poor

 

[Barney]

Who mentioned play offs? It's about rebuilding this season, gradually. Recruiting now is vital, beds players in for next season

I also still believe that stability is the biggest thing for this club - sacking Adkins would be a mistake despite current form

Sorry Swiss don't agree. Letting Adkins take charge of a substantial amount of signings whether it be in January or the summer, is definitely a mistake on the back of what he's signed thus far and his showings of general poor management to date.

It's logic. The method can be applied in any walk of life. Someone makes 5 mistakes, especially in a position as important as a football manager, you do your utmost to prevent them making a considerable amount more.

 

[jt64]

At what point does it cease to be a bad run? It's not like we've lost 3 in 4 or something, 15 in 15 is a third of the fucking season

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Surely it is better to secure our third division status by recruiting players in January who can do that. Major changes can still be made in the close season. The difference being we might then be challenging for promotion to the championship rather than to division one.

If relegation is considered to be a real possibility it would be totally irresponsible to fail to do something about that in January.

Losing a fourth division play off final?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

At what point does it cease to be a bad run? It's not like we've lost 3 in 4 or something, 15 in 15 is a third of the fucking season

But some fuckers on here think we're up for an automatic place if we could just win all our games?

 

[SwissBlade]

Sorry Swiss don't agree. Letting Adkins take charge of a substantial amount of signings whether it be in January or the summer, is definitely a mistake on the back of what he's signed thus far and his showings of general poor management to date.

It's logic. The method can be applied in any walk of life. Someone makes 5 mistakes, especially in a position as important as a football manager, you do your utmost to prevent them making a considerable amount more.

We've been down this road too many times, we need to change the cycle. It doesn't work. We've sacked how many managers since we came down? It hasn't worked.

What we need is for Adkins to apply his and the club's philosophy of players, not just to suit Adkins, but to suit the club. Either way we have to build a settled squad.

Personally I think the club have been surprised at how badly it's gone, but anyone that expected anything but mid table mediocrity this season was always going to be in for a major surprise.

Adkins is far from blameless, he's made bad decisions and he's continuing to do so, but you could also argue that because of the few signings, he's not got his side yet. I don't really buy into that, I think he could've done better with what he has and also recruited better.

He needs until the end of the season, until at least next Xmas, but he also needs to stop fucking up so that people like me can get behind him with justification, not just because I think we need stability.

One thing is for sure, he's making it really hard to support him and like him. I really, really hope he turns it around... For that chance he needs a good go at fixing things in January.

 

[robbiez666]

We have to spend in January. Relegation might mean the end of any vague investment. If KM and The Prince walked we'd be screwed.

In the JTW we need to either build for next year where we can or bring in players on short contracts/loans.

 

[Barney]

We've been down this road too many times, we need to change the cycle. It doesn't work. We've sacked how many managers since we came down? It hasn't worked.

What we need is for Adkins to apply his and the club's philosophy of players, not just to suit Adkins, but to suit the club. Either way we have to build a settled squad.

Personally I think the club have been surprised at how badly it's gone, but anyone that expected anything but mid table mediocrity this season was always going to be in for a major surprise.

Adkins is far from blameless, he's made bad decisions and he's continuing to do so, but you could also argue that because of the few signings, he's not got his side yet. I don't really buy into that, I think he could've done better with what he has and also recruited better.

He needs until the end of the season, until at least next Xmas, but he also needs to stop fucking up so that people like me can get behind him with justification, not just because I think we need stability.

One thing is for sure, he's making it really hard to support him and like him. I really, really hope he turns it around... For that chance he needs a good go at fixing things in January.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's worth mentioning though that I don't think we should base our managerial decisions on past experiences. I'd prefer to learn from the past, not just avoid the same action because it hasn't gone well before. It's better to treat each case on an individual basis, taking past experiences into consideration, without letting them dictate a wrong decision - as would be sticking with Adkins in my opinion. If we hadn't got it wrong before, would I be safe in saying you'd be asking for him out? I'd wager a bit of a fortune that many who are claiming to seek stability now, would be calling for his head if it weren't for some of these managerial decisions in the past. And that tells you everything you need to know, we're avoiding actions from the past, that's entirely different to learning, and will actually lead to an even more damaging spiral of decline.

 

[SwissBlade]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's worth mentioning though that I don't think we should base our managerial decisions on past experiences. I'd prefer to learn from the past, not just avoid the same action because it hasn't gone well before. I think it's better to treat each case on an individual basis, taking past experiences into consideration, without letting them dictate a wrong decision - as would be sticking with Adkins in my opinion. If we hadn't got it wrong before, would I be safe in saying you'd be asking for him out? I'd wager a bit of a fortune that many who are claiming to seek stability now would be calling for his head if it weren't for decisions in the past. And that tells you everything you need to know, we're avoiding actions from the past, and that's entirely different to learning.

I agree, about the past, however, I've long since said that we have to look at the long term plan when recruiting and also at times like this. Results are temporary, to an extent, of course they shouldn't be overlooked, but we can't just say we've had a bad month or two and get rid because it's much more complex than that. Signings, injuries, players out of form, playing out of position etc.

I didn't want to change Clough out, I thought he was also a couple of signings from his promotion push, perhaps. So Adkins coming in was always going to need time to put his marker down. I didn't buy into the summer nonsense with the Phipps PR and deso pitch roadshows, personally I think the club have had a nightmare on the PR front. They should've played things down instead of mentioning promotion.

So admittedly Adkins has under performed, but my thoughts were around play offs by the end of the season when he kicked the season off. The fact that he's not recruited well in the summer has hurt us and mid table is of little surprise now. A couple of decent recruits and we could be touching play offs, with a decent league run and FA cup run to give some hope. Adkins needs that as well as us fans.

 

[alcoblade]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's worth mentioning though that I don't think we should base our managerial decisions on past experiences. I'd prefer to learn from the past, not just avoid the same action because it hasn't gone well before. It's better to treat each case on an individual basis, taking past experiences into consideration, without letting them dictate a wrong decision - as would be sticking with Adkins in my opinion. If we hadn't got it wrong before, would I be safe in saying you'd be asking for him out? I'd wager a bit of a fortune that many who are claiming to seek stability now, would be calling for his head if it weren't for some of these managerial decisions in the past. And that tells you everything you need to know, we're avoiding actions from the past, that's entirely different to learning, and will actually lead to an even more damaging spiral of decline.

You can keep repeating it, but it doesn't add any credibility. When you made the same call after about 2 weeks, it doesn't indicate any foresight, it indicates that you haven't learned from any mistakes the club has made before.

UTB

 

[Cyprus Blade]

But who would come (that can do the job) based on our track record of sacking managers ? You cannot ignore the fact that we've had more managers than the Italian's have had presidents this century as it will impact on whether sacking the manager would clear the way for someone who can do the job better. So who would want to come - shit squad, fickle board, irate fans. Can't see it myself. We have made our bed and will have to lay on it for now.

 

[Barney]

You can keep repeating it, but it doesn't add any credibility. When you made the same call after about 2 weeks, it doesn't indicate any foresight, it indicates that you haven't learned from any mistakes the club has made before.

UTB

No - It indicates I'm treating every case individually, with consideration for the mistakes made previously.

 

[Barney]

But who would come (that can do the job) based on our track record of sacking managers ? You cannot ignore the fact that we've had more managers than the Italian's have had presidents this century as it will impact on whether sacking the manager would clear the way for someone who can do the job better. So who would want to come - shit squad, fickle board, irate fans. Can't see it myself. We have made our bed and will have to lay on it for now.

Believe it or not, Sheffield United will always be an attractive managerial proposition.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

yes but look at some of the numpties we attract. And appoint.

 

[ChrisBlade]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's worth mentioning though that I don't think we should base our managerial decisions on past experiences. I'd prefer to learn from the past, not just avoid the same action because it hasn't gone well before. It's better to treat each case on an individual basis, taking past experiences into consideration, without letting them dictate a wrong decision - as would be sticking with Adkins in my opinion. If we hadn't got it wrong before, would I be safe in saying you'd be asking for him out? I'd wager a bit of a fortune that many who are claiming to seek stability now, would be calling for his head if it weren't for some of these managerial decisions in the past. And that tells you everything you need to know, we're avoiding actions from the past, that's entirely different to learning, and will actually lead to an even more damaging spiral of decline.

You are really fond of this argument regarding learning. So to paraphrase you: If, for the sake of the argument, we have a collection of cripples and losers accumulated by previous regimes that all lasted ten minutes. A look back tells us that we sacked each of, say Big Sam, Pardew and Pulis, all after 12-18 months while gradually getting worse by never replacing good players with players of an equal standard. A look at the now also tells us that able-bodied footballers tend to outrun fat, self-content crocks.

In the summer we brought in a supposedly higher class manager in Ranieri but you hate his iffy Italian accent and foolhardy interview style from day one... Plus he got lucky at Chelsea!

In November, "learning" to you means "bin Ranieri" as he continued the policy of replacing dross with bigger dross in line with the ongoing four-year policy and based on five pour signings and a failure to raise the rag-tag bunch left by the previous rabble rousers beyond uninspiring mid-table?

To me learning is to accept that

- maybe none of Big Sam, Pardew and Pulis needed hanging that quickly.
- Ranieri maybe a buffoon of an even or worse standard, but the sample we got and the situation he operates in is not of his own making so it is difficult to tell for sure and
- the way our example club is run makes it almost impossible for any manager to succeed.

As I said in the shoutbox in anger today: We are like Bayern Munich. The only two clubs in Europe that could be coached by a chimp and very little would change...