Barnsley analysis (focus on midfield)

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Bergen Blade

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We started like this:

Long
Brayford Edgar Collins Harris
Hammond
Basham - - - - Coutts
Done - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JCR
Sharp


I applaud Adkins' choice of formation. It's exactly the shape that I thought we needed, although personally I would have played Adams on the left and Scougall for Coutts.

The extra body in midfield, with Hammond sweeping up behind Basham and Coutts meant that the latter two could be far more aggressive and close down much more effectively than what's been the case in our 4-4-2 efforts. This gave us a feeling of being mostly in control of the game, more difficult to get through. Our defenders were more comfortable with the extra protection, although there were a couple of situations where their weaknesses showed.

We also went forward a lot quicker, and there was less sideways and backwards passing. Done was a constant threat and showed that he can be very effective from a wide starting position, as long as he's asked to play the right role (inside forward) and we have the right formation (4-3-3/4-5-1). JCR was quiet, and I noticed more good defensive involvements than offensive.

Hammond was fine as the holding midfielder and also looked more at home in the new formation. He's decent in the air and it's good for the centre halves that they get some help with high balls, meaning one of them doesn't have to break out of the defensive line all the time. There was one occasion when Edgar ended up in noman's land, and it was good to see that Hammond realised he had to drop down in the back four to fill in for him. He also played a couple of good through balls and must have enjoyed the extra time he had on the ball being a bit deeper.

Basham did as expected. Not very creative, but his energy, tackling and ability to do box to box helped us. If only his finishing and heading technique was a little bit better. I think the goal was an own goal by the man who marked him. If we're sticking with this formation Basham must play in this role. He needs a fitter partner though, a nippy little terrier who likes to get into the box is ideal, and then I can see us really improving and getting even more out of our attacking assets.

Coutts had a bit of a nightmare from after we scored to well into the second half. I think he must be disappointed that Hammond was given the holding role, as it's the only one Coutts is really capable of playing himself. In terms of closing down and doing box to box he's simply not able to do it effectively. He's normally good technically, but in the mentioned period that part of his game was poor too. Maybe the extra running he did on occasions affected his touch. He did pick himself up a little later on, but Adkins shouldn't be asking him to do this role.


I think our goal made us a bit more defensive than I'd hoped. Despite not attacking in numbers we kept producing chances though, helped by our tempo and the work rate and running of Done and Sharp with Basham and Brayford also joining in when they could.

We haven't lost under Adkins when we've started in a 4-3-3 formation, and I think he's on the right path again now. I thought that was the case a few weeks ago as well, but he ruined it by reverting to his beloved 4-4-2. There are still tweaks required though, and we have to make these tweaks (the exact right ones) to get where we want to be. For me this was a definite step in the right direction though.
 

As ever, great work Bergen Blade

how similar is this set up to how Clough liked to have us play, with 4-5-1/ 4-3-3

Sounds like Adkins is starting to get players playing the system that they can work with.

Out of interest, do you think Scougall would fit into this better than Coutts?
 
I'd stick with this system, but swap Scougall for Coutts. Both are poor, but Scougall has running legs. Then I'd look to replace both at Christmas. Add a new Centre Half for Collins, and I'm sure we'll turn it around.


UTB
 
I'd stick with this system, but swap Scougall for Coutts. Both are poor, but Scougall has running legs. Then I'd look to replace both at Christmas. Add a new Centre Half for Collins, and I'm sure we'll turn it around.


UTB
Basham at centre half for me, then stick Baxter and Scougall in front of Coutts

When is Hammond going back?
 
With Baxter instead of Coutts that's probably the base side we should look to tweak from rather than making sweeping changes or going back to 4-4-2 again. 4-3-3 has always been the obvious formation to play to everyone except Adkins. Adams and Done aren't wingers or outright strikers, but can be very effective making runs from a wide position to support the lone striker, with a more orthodox wide man on the opposite side. 3 in central midfield was always when Basham was at his best last season, and it covers for the weaknesses of people like Baxter and Scougall too and the extra man covering in front of the back four means it's safer for the full backs to push forward and get crosses in.

The silly thing is, we almost played this system for the past couple of seasons, It only needed a few tweaks in pre-season to make it less negative, add a goalscorer and improve the defence. Instead Adkins has wasted a third of the season getting back to exactly where we started.
 
Basham at centre half for me, then stick Baxter and Scougall in front of Coutts

When is Hammond going back?
You left Coutts in just to piss me off didn't you? :)

I based my opinion on believing the the deal's been done, and that he's actually improving on a weekly basis - Hammond will prove far better than Coutts - though I think the pair are probably being paid well past their worth.

UTB
 
You left Coutts in just to piss me off didn't you?

I based my opinion on believing the the deal's been done, and that he's actually improving on a weekly basis - Hammond will prove far better than Coutts - though I think the pair are probably being paid well past their worth.

UTB
Ha ha not at all, it was really because I refuse to accept that Hammond will get much better. He looks less fit than Coutts did when he joined. I'd rather see Coutts in that holding role. But I'll go with Bergen and your opinion that Hammond is improving (at least until I see him v Coventry!)
 
I think Adkins mentioned Scougall had got another injury? He'd been looking a bit more like his old self in the games I'd seen him lately so hopefully isn't anything serious. Still no sign of Wallace!
 
I'd stick with this system, but swap Scougall for Coutts. Both are poor, but Scougall has running legs. Then I'd look to replace both at Christmas. Add a new Centre Half for Collins, and I'm sure we'll turn it around.
UTB

But can we afford to do all that?

Three players in those positions good enough for a charge at the play-offs won't come cheap.

If we can't - then what are the priorities in order?

As posted elsewhere a mobile midfielder is top of the list I think.
 
But can we afford to do all that?

Three players in those positions good enough for a charge at the play-offs won't come cheap.

If we can't - then what are the priorities in order?

As posted elsewhere a mobile midfielder is top of the list I think.
If we can't, I'd go for a midfielder first, then a centre half, then another midfielder- in that order.

UTB
 
We started like this:

Long
Brayford Edgar Collins Harris
Hammond
Basham - - - - Coutts
Done - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JCR
Sharp


I applaud Adkins' choice of formation. It's exactly the shape that I thought we needed, although personally I would have played Adams on the left and Scougall for Coutts.

The extra body in midfield, with Hammond sweeping up behind Basham and Coutts meant that the latter two could be far more aggressive and close down much more effectively than what's been the case in our 4-4-2 efforts. This gave us a feeling of being mostly in control of the game, more difficult to get through. Our defenders were more comfortable with the extra protection, although there were a couple of situations where their weaknesses showed.

We also went forward a lot quicker, and there was less sideways and backwards passing. Done was a constant threat and showed that he can be very effective from a wide starting position, as long as he's asked to play the right role (inside forward) and we have the right formation (4-3-3/4-5-1). JCR was quiet, and I noticed more good defensive involvements than offensive.

Hammond was fine as the holding midfielder and also looked more at home in the new formation. He's decent in the air and it's good for the centre halves that they get some help with high balls, meaning one of them doesn't have to break out of the defensive line all the time. There was one occasion when Edgar ended up in noman's land, and it was good to see that Hammond realised he had to drop down in the back four to fill in for him. He also played a couple of good through balls and must have enjoyed the extra time he had on the ball being a bit deeper.

Basham did as expected. Not very creative, but his energy, tackling and ability to do box to box helped us. If only his finishing and heading technique was a little bit better. I think the goal was an own goal by the man who marked him. If we're sticking with this formation Basham must play in this role. He needs a fitter partner though, a nippy little terrier who likes to get into the box is ideal, and then I can see us really improving and getting even more out of our attacking assets.

Coutts had a bit of a nightmare from after we scored to well into the second half. I think he must be disappointed that Hammond was given the holding role, as it's the only one Coutts is really capable of playing himself. In terms of closing down and doing box to box he's simply not able to do it effectively. He's normally good technically, but in the mentioned period that part of his game was poor too. Maybe the extra running he did on occasions affected his touch. He did pick himself up a little later on, but Adkins shouldn't be asking him to do this role.


I think our goal made us a bit more defensive than I'd hoped. Despite not attacking in numbers we kept producing chances though, helped by our tempo and the work rate and running of Done and Sharp with Basham and Brayford also joining in when they could.

We haven't lost under Adkins when we've started in a 4-3-3 formation, and I think he's on the right path again now. I thought that was the case a few weeks ago as well, but he ruined it by reverting to his beloved 4-4-2. There are still tweaks required though, and we have to make these tweaks (the exact right ones) to get where we want to be. For me this was a definite step in the right direction though.

not had chance to watch it on BP yet but a thorough analysis to bear in mind for when I do - probably tomorrow. Sounds possibly there is some cause for a bit of hope with Brayford back now and if Hammond is improving (and hopefully Edgar's not injured again). If we can get the rub of the green a bit more, as Bassett used to say, then maybe we can get a knock on effect from that and see some confidence start returning as well. Then the JTW. Oh fuckin ell, it's a lot easier being pessimistic ;)
 
If we can't, I'd go for a midfielder first, then a centre half, then another midfielder- in that order.

UTB

Me too. :)

I think a fit Scoogs may get one last fling as Adkins sees whether he can get out of him what he needs - and there have been flashes - but he'd have to produce much more, and much more consistently.
 

We also have Cuvelier to come back into the mix soon, Adkins was seemingly very pleased with how he'd been performing in training. Be good to get a few games out of him before his contract is up.
 
We also have Cuvelier to come back into the mix soon, Adkins was seemingly very pleased with how he'd been performing in training. Be good to get a few games out of him before his contract is up.
I was worried about that. I'd bin him no matter what. Too injury prone.

UTB
 
Louis Reed not good enough then is he? Scapegoat for Tuesdays performance in too many eyes when quite clearly let down by more experienced team mates. Was excellent when played in the 4-3-3 line up re Bradford 2nd half, Swindon away, Burton away and Bury at home for 60 mins until he was taken off (fans on his back for two misplaced passes either side of a killer ball which Sammon failed to score from). Not being give a fair crack of the whip in my opinion, needs a run of games preferably in the 4-3-3 formation mentioned
 
Louis Reed not good enough then is he? Scapegoat for Tuesdays performance in too many eyes when quite clearly let down by more experienced team mates. Was excellent when played in the 4-3-3 line up re Bradford 2nd half, Swindon away, Burton away and Bury at home for 60 mins until he was taken off (fans on his back for two misplaced passes either side of a killer ball which Sammon failed to score from). Not being give a fair crack of the whip in my opinion, needs a run of games preferably in the 4-3-3 formation mentioned

Reed has done well intermittently - and looks much improved from last season - but is he good enough yet as a starting player in a promotion chasing team?

If you were scapegoating (when do we ever do that?) you could blame the whole of Tuesday on him - even the bit where he wasn't on the pitch - as he missed the tackle for their first. Got there but really didn't commit at all and it flew into the net. A huge disappointment at the time.

Downhill from there.
 
As ever, great work Bergen Blade

how similar is this set up to how Clough liked to have us play, with 4-5-1/ 4-3-3

Sounds like Adkins is starting to get players playing the system that they can work with.

Out of interest, do you think Scougall would fit into this better than Coutts?

I think it's pretty similar to Clough's system. He was also dependent on getting the balance right, which he did in the last few months of his first season. The following season became a mess though, not just down to Clough.

Some of the weaknesses of last season have been addressed and I do think we have a good chance to get it right if we build (not just settle) on what we did at Barnsley. I think a few players in the squad are capable of proving people wrong, given the right role and a well-balanced side.

I'd like to see Scougs get a chance, but I think it's vital that whoever takes over Coutts' position isn't pushed up as a "number 10", we need another mobile box to box man. If not Scougs, we must look for someone else who can offer both great work rate and something going forward. There are few things we could try, even before January.
 
Reed is another who isn't good enough to play in a 4-4-2 but could be used in a 4-3-3. He'd probably be better off having a solid six months in League 2 at a club where he'd play every game though, rather than being in and out of the team seemingly at random.

I don't see the point in binning Cuvelier no matter what. If he's finally fit, let him show what he can do, rather than us paying him for nothing then letting him go play for somebody else when he's finally available. If he can actually run, he might be just the player we need.
 
Reed is another who isn't good enough to play in a 4-4-2 but could be used in a 4-3-3. He'd probably be better off having a solid six months in League 2 at a club where he'd play every game though, rather than being in and out of the team seemingly at random.

I don't see the point in binning Cuvelier no matter what. If he's finally fit, let him show what he can do, rather than us paying him for nothing then letting him go play for somebody else when he's finally available. If he can actually run, he might be just the player we need.
If he's our best midfielder I'd still play him ( I really have no idea how good he is after 2 years). As long as there's no chance of a contract being offered. That was my point, really.

UTB
 
I think it's pretty similar to Clough's system. He was also dependent on getting the balance right, which he did in the last few months of his first season. The following season became a mess though, not just down to Clough.

Some of the weaknesses of last season have been addressed and I do think we have a good chance to get it right if we build (not just settle) on what we did at Barnsley. I think a few players in the squad are capable of proving people wrong, given the right role and a well-balanced side.

I'd like to see Scougs get a chance, but I think it's vital that whoever takes over Coutts' position isn't pushed up as a "number 10", we need another mobile box to box man. If not Scougs, we must look for someone else who can offer both great work rate and something going forward. There are few things we could try, even before January.
Agree on the formation ,I actually called it pre match ,but disagree strongly with your opinion of Coutts. Out of interest how have you seen the game ? For the first time together in that formation I think all 3 excelled and dominated midfield ,only to be let down by 2 stupid substitutions by a nervous manager which stifled them in the last 20 minutes.
 
I think it's pretty similar to Clough's system. He was also dependent on getting the balance right, which he did in the last few months of his first season. The following season became a mess though, not just down to Clough.

Some of the weaknesses of last season have been addressed and I do think we have a good chance to get it right if we build (not just settle) on what we did at Barnsley. I think a few players in the squad are capable of proving people wrong, given the right role and a well-balanced side.

I'd like to see Scougs get a chance, but I think it's vital that whoever takes over Coutts' position isn't pushed up as a "number 10", we need another mobile box to box man. If not Scougs, we must look for someone else who can offer both great work rate and something going forward. There are few things we could try, even before January.


Scougall and Baxter would be vying with Adams for the Done and JCR roles I would think, for that very reason that they are not box to box players in the deeper positions.

Reed instead of Coutts for me. J.Wallace if ever fit. K.Wallace worth a try on the left centre where Coutts was.

Don't mind Basham in that role but prefer a better recruit in January.

So important the full backs push on whenever possible in this formation.

Salmon for Sharp is another alternative.

Certainly with this formation we have more options in each position and that tells us something.
 
Moving people in and out of that midfield is like rearranging deckchairs on the titanic.

Given the choice, I would keep Baxter, and possibly Basham. I would bin the rest and try to get 2 big central midfielders who are quick and can pass. Most clubs in league one have these players.

No more crocks, tortoises and scrappy midgets.

I fear we will bring no one in during the window save Hammond in some stupid 2 and a half year deal. If so, I shudder to think where we will be when the next window comes around.
 
Scougall and Baxter would be vying with Adams for the Done and JCR roles I would think, for that very reason that they are not box to box players in the deeper positions.

Baxter is wasted out wide, Scougall is abysmal if he's not played through the middle, neither of them should be considered as alternatives for Adams/Done/JCR, they should only be considered for the deeper positions (unless Baxter gets used in his old false 9 position with no striker)
 
Baxter is wasted out wide, Scougall is abysmal if he's not played through the middle, neither of them should be considered as alternatives for Adams/Done/JCR, they should only be considered for the deeper positions (unless Baxter gets used in his old false 9 position with no striker)


If "wide" is the essential feature of those two roles then I agree, but the formation can be played in different ways such as "wide" when we don't have the ball and totally flexible when we do. Sharp should be supported in the middle on every attack, not left in isolation and the full backs provide attacking width anyway.

Defensively the three deeper players can provide the cover wide and the full backs will be thereabouts when the opposition breaks.

The three forward players do not really have serious defensive duties surely. A lot of teams play without wide players with success.
 
Agree on the formation ,I actually called it pre match ,but disagree strongly with your opinion of Coutts. Out of interest how have you seen the game ? For the first time together in that formation I think all 3 excelled and dominated midfield ,only to be let down by 2 stupid substitutions by a nervous manager which stifled them in the last 20 minutes.

I watch the videos on BladesPlayer. Do you disagree with the mentioned requirements for his midfield role (work rate, closing down, forward movement), or do you think he possesses those qualities?

I would have brought on Adams at some stage. I think Adkins saw the tricky Hammill as their biggest threat and therefore brought on Freeman in right midfield to help deal with him.
 
If "wide" is the essential feature of those two roles then I agree, but the formation can be played in different ways such as "wide" when we don't have the ball and totally flexible when we do. Sharp should be supported in the middle on every attack, not left in isolation and the full backs provide attacking width anyway.

Defensively the three deeper players can provide the cover wide and the full backs will be thereabouts when the opposition breaks.

The three forward players do not really have serious defensive duties surely. A lot of teams play without wide players with success.

Both JCR and Done worked pretty hard defensively at Barnsley helping their full backs, and I think we need that.
 

I watch the videos on BladesPlayer. Do you disagree with the mentioned requirements for his midfield role (work rate, closing down, forward movement), or do you think he possesses those qualities?

I would have brought on Adams at some stage. I think Adkins saw the tricky Hammill as their biggest threat and therefore brought on Freeman in right midfield to help deal with him.

I think between them Basham , Coutts and Hammond have those requirements in the right amount. Scougall could come in but I think you lose the passing and clearing up of Coutts ,plus a bit of height of course.

I agree completely with you ,Adkins erred on the side of caution ,but handed the initiative to Barnsley and we lost our outlets up front. Sharp played well with Done ,their movement upset the Barnsley defence and we lost that when Done went off ,if Adams had come on they would have still had those problems. We also had a strong wind behind us ,we could have had them pinned in. The middle 3 were less effective when Freeman cam on as we lost options for a forward pass. Big mistake by Adkins ,keeping up his record of bad substitutions this season which cost us a lot of points. I also think Coutts links well with Brayford and is a good link down the right between Brayford and JCR or the strikers ,Scougall doesnt get his head up enough.

If Jcr is out for a while ,I would look at Baxter ,Scougall Adams to fill that roll ,in that order as a roaming player between the midfield and attack ,with the full backs given chance to get forward
 

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