"They don't look like a team challenging for the play-offs"

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pommpey said:
Over what time period?

Two seasons?

pommpey
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Not sure. Not an expert on FFP but someone in here might help. There are reports that the Championship division might not allow QPR back in the division if they get relegated this season cos they broke FFP rules
 
SUFC Handsworth said:
I wouldn't have a problem with Clough's tactics if we had a rock solid defence, that's what we did so effectively in the second half of last season and fans weren't moaning then about tactics. Minus the pairing of Maguire and Collins that defence has been dreadful.
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I was speaking to some Hull fans at Kings Cross and they really do rate him.
 
JohnDenver said:
I've never forgotten that game for the exact reasons you outline. Has there ever been a team of such strength and talent that were so intent on strangling the life out of weak opposition? They could have run up 4 or five goals, but preferred instead to hold us at arms length and watch us suffocate.
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JD i could not agree more with you, as much as I love passing football from the back. The way that chelsea side played football was near perfect. They had players who were unbelievably talented but they also had players such as Carvalho (My dad's favourite CB of the prem era) who would rather murder their own mother than let an opposition striker take a shot in or around the 18 yard box. He just did not let anyone past, either by a fair tackle or by cynically chopping someone. And that is exactly why Mourinho is ranked so highly, not by any of the flair players he has purchased but by how he deploys his defenders. Branislav Ivanovic is a prime example of this.

I know we are a few levels below their standard but defenders of this guile are required at all levels. Terry Kennedy is the closest thing we have to this. He does the basics well and has a 'you shall not pass' attitude. Unfortunately he is a crock, so the first thing i'd look for in the summer is 3/4 CB's who possess at least some of these qualities.

UTB x
 
Lord Bos of Eckington. said:
for league 1, we are not that far off , but still not good enough. However it could win us a final.

UTB
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Yep. If we hit our best form we can beat MK Dons, Preston, Swindon or Chesterfield.

We need everyone on their game and we need to tactically out-think the opposition. Nigel Clough, your time is now.
 
Woodwardfan said:
"And the one BIG ISSUE for me - we need someone better than his brother as Head Scout. Then the manager's job would be so much easier. We are a big club relatively, we should be able to attract better players without throwing money at the problem in the JTW like we did.
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If you had said we can't get good players to work together as a team consistently I would have agreed but I'm sorry its our league position that is the issue and is why we lost players like Harry etc, not Clough or his brother.
 
wakefieldblade said:
JD i could not agree more with you, as much as I love passing football from the back. The way that chelsea side played football was near perfect. They had players who were unbelievably talented but they also had players such as Carvalho (My dad's favourite CB of the prem era) who would rather murder their own mother than let an opposition striker take a shot in or around the 18 yard box. He just did not let anyone past, either by a fair tackle or by cynically chopping someone. And that is exactly why Mourinho is ranked so highly, not by any of the flair players he has purchased but by how he deploys his defenders. Branislav Ivanovic is a prime example of this.

I know we are a few levels below their standard but defenders of this guile are required at all levels. Terry Kennedy is the closest thing we have to this. He does the basics well and has a 'you shall not pass' attitude. Unfortunately he is a crock, so the first thing i'd look for in the summer is 3/4 CB's who possess at least some of these qualities.

UTB x
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Well described wakefieldblade. Like yourself, I sit and purr when a side can hold the ball, play with ease, hold the ball comfortably, and not appear in the least bit flustered. The trouble is, defences this good are few and far between. Brazil have managed to produce more than one defence capable of this quality. As did France in 1998, with superb defenders such as Thuram, Desailly, and Lizarazu. But to take your point, to have at least one, possibly two defenders who are uncompromising, who take no prisoners, who add a steely backbone to a defence that can intimidate any opposing forward line, instils immense confidence in the team as a whole.

Yes, ideally it needs to be cynical (I know that will offend a purist sensibility), but boy, does it enable the players in front of it to do their job knowing that their defenders are resolute in not wanting to concede. Another term used to describe this type of mindset is ugly, aptly describing those players who never shirk their duty in preventing gifted players from creating goalmouth opportunities.
 
Bladesway said:
If you had said we can't get good players to work together as a team consistently I would have agreed but I'm sorry its our league position that is the issue and is why we lost players like Harry etc, not Clough or his brother.
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MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
 
Woodwardfan said:
MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
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Woodwardfan said:
MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
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Further point is the quality and type of loan signings: Holt, Paynter, White, Lappin( extension of loan), C O'G, B.Davies, S.Davies, McCarthy,

I reckon the Coady capture by Weir was of different class and approach, mutually beneficial to club and player and the opportunity to form a relationship between player and manager.
 
Woodwardfan said:
MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
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Excellent summary - couldn't agree more. At the end of the day, it's not the manager's fault (entirely), it's the manager's boss's fault.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Well described wakefieldblade. Like yourself, I sit and purr when a side can hold the ball, play with ease, hold the ball comfortably, and not appear in the least bit flustered. The trouble is, defences this good are few and far between. Brazil have managed to produce more than one defence capable of this quality. As did France in 1998, with superb defenders such as Thuram, Desailly, and Lizarazu. But to take your point, to have at least one, possibly two defenders who are uncompromising, who take no prisoners, who add a steely backbone to a defence that can intimidate any opposing forward line, instils immense confidence in the team as a whole.

Yes, ideally it needs to be cynical (I know that will offend a purist sensibility), but boy, does it enable the players in front of it to do their job knowing that their defenders are resolute in not wanting to concede. Another term used to describe this type of mindset is ugly, aptly describing those players who never shirk their duty in preventing gifted players from creating goalmouth opportunities.
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Leeds in the 70s'.
 

Woodwardfan said:
MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
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Don't you think though W/F, that other fans probably think the same of some of our players, Baxter, when he can be bothered, Murphy, who many think will leave for the championship if we don't get promoted and the young un reed, quality midfielder and more likely playing at a higher level as he matures. So it's all relative, it's just that we see other team players when we're up against them, rather than our players week after week, and their weaknesses. UTB FTO.
 
Jonboy60 said:
Don't you think though W/F, that other fans probably think the same of some of our players, Baxter, when he can be bothered, Murphy, who many think will leave for the championship if we don't get promoted and the young un reed, quality midfielder and more likely playing at a higher level as he matures. So it's all relative, it's just that we see other team players when we're up against them, rather than our players week after week, and their weaknesses. UTB FTO.
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That's human nature but I'm afraid there's no sentiment or natural bias or fear in the league table or the style of play and the number of goals scored.

Grayson, Cooper and Cotterill have been in their jobs a similar time to Clough but Robinson much longer of course.

The type of player they recruit is much different. A number of their players are from bigger clubs where they didn't quite make it. How many good young lads don't stand a chance of breaking through at the big clubs?

Our constant search for ex-Derby, ex-Blackpool and in the lower reaches of the Scottish leagues is perverse really.
 
Woodwardfan said:
That's human nature but I'm afraid there's no sentiment or natural bias or fear in the league table or the style of play and the number of goals scored.

Grayson, Cooper and Cotterill have been in their jobs a similar time to Clough but Robinson much longer of course.

The type of player they recruit is much different. A number of their players are from bigger clubs where they didn't quite make it. How many good young lads don't stand a chance of breaking through at the big clubs?

Our constant search for ex-Derby, ex-Blackpool and in the lower reaches of the Scottish leagues is perverse really.
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It's true that Cotterill has been in the job around the same time as Clough but Cooper has had two full seasons and Grayson two and a half.

Each of the clubs have taken different approaches to recruitment, as have other clubs that have got promoted from this league in recent years. When Fergie Jnr got Posh promoted lots of people were saying 'that's what we should do, sign hungry young players from the lower and non leagues'. When Swansea went up and did well in the Championship people said 'why can't we play possession based football, you don't need big lads hoofing it'.

But it's always as much about the execution as the philosophy. And allowing sufficient time for change. Should Grayson, after last season when he'd FAILED to get Preston promoted been sacked? With the benefit of hindsight, probably not. With Cooper's managerial record would we have wanted him anywhere near our club two years ago? Doubt it.

There's no magic formula to promotion. It's not a 'Blades thing' it's a football thing; the believe that if you do the opposite to what has just failed then you'll succeed. So if passing football fails, try hoof; if you have a quiet manager, get a loud one who jumps around, etc.

Clough hasn't fulfilled most people's expectations but nor has it been a total disaster - playoffs and a cup semi final in his first season. That should be enough to warrant another chance but the reaction from some supporters is like we've just escaped relegation. I know what division we're in and I know how long we've been in it. Neither is Clough's fault.

Grayson has, off the top of my head, one of the best recent records of getting clubs out of L1 and it's taken him two and a half seasons (at least) to sort Preston out. Why shouldn't Clough, or any other manager, be given the same?
 
Woodwardfan said:
MKD, Bristol and Swindon have all unearthed quality players. Preston have put together a different type of squad but effective nevertheless. None of those clubs had any more attraction than we had.

As you know I have said many times the management of the squad is poor but a manager usually lives or dies by the quality of his dealings in the transfer market. Ours have been distinctly average overall and nobody gets a sense of a focused approach to bring in the type of players we need to build a balanced squad. Without that the manager finds he is lacking cover in vital positions and in our case height and beef generally. He ends up playing players out of position and sometimes just because they can add some height rather than quality.

We have been short of two main strikers for most of the season plus two main central defenders for all season. That makes the manager's job hard.

I also think we are short of creativity and game changers but I understand if the manager expected more from Baxter, Scougall and Wallace. Even Murphy has not been as good as last season. Therefore I can sympathise with Clough there. He's been slow to react however.

The signings of K.Wallace, Adams, Holt, Ryce, Ben Davies, McNulty, Basham (signed as a midfielder), and Coutts have added nothing in terms of creativity and game changing from midfield. Mainly too small and not good enough. A couple are said to be "for the future" which is fine but does not help where needed in a supposed promotion season.

Any scout can line up a player and suggest we throw money at the transaction, way over the odds in the case of Brayford and Done apparently. It's the bargains that are the gems in the market. Just take a look at the Players Profiles on the above clubs' websites and see how their squads have been put together with older players with good careers and young players from good stables.

Our lack of quality loan players has also left us at a disadvantage against the above clubs who also have a knack of signing their loanees on contracts subsequently after forming a bond in their loan periods.

Hope that explains where I'm coming from B'Way.
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Do you think Beckford came for nowt? I can bet you MKD's squad wasn't assembled on cheap wages either. I don't know a deal about Swindon apart from that they were living beyond their means. If that is the case then they also havent been assembled on the cheap. I kind of get your point but we are 2-3 seasons behind the likes of MKD who have had their management teams together longer.

It doesn't mean where we are is good enough by the way but if you look how much better players like Murphy and Flynn have been under Clough you must see he is getting something right.
 
Spot on, everyone in football cries out for stability but no one seems to have the patience to give managers time to build a club.
BushBlade said:
It's true that Cotterill has been in the job around the same time as Clough but Cooper has had two full seasons and Grayson two and a half.

Each of the clubs have taken different approaches to recruitment, as have other clubs that have got promoted from this league in recent years. When Fergie Jnr got Posh promoted lots of people were saying 'that's what we should do, sign hungry young players from the lower and non leagues'. When Swansea went up and did well in the Championship people said 'why can't we play possession based football, you don't need big lads hoofing it'.

But it's always as much about the execution as the philosophy. And allowing sufficient time for change. Should Grayson, after last season when he'd FAILED to get Preston promoted been sacked? With the benefit of hindsight, probably not. With Cooper's managerial record would we have wanted him anywhere near our club two years ago? Doubt it.

There's no magic formula to promotion. It's not a 'Blades thing' it's a football thing; the believe that if you do the opposite to what has just failed then you'll succeed. So if passing football fails, try hoof; if you have a quiet manager, get a loud one who jumps around, etc.

Clough hasn't fulfilled most people's expectations but nor has it been a total disaster - playoffs and a cup semi final in his first season. That should be enough to warrant another chance but the reaction from some supporters is like we've just escaped relegation. I know what division we're in and I know how long we've been in it. Neither is Clough's fault.

Grayson has, off the top of my head, one of the best recent records of getting clubs out of L1 and it's taken him two and a half seasons (at least) to sort Preston out. Why shouldn't Clough, or any other manager, be given the same?
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We lack drive on and off the pitch. There's no one who drags the team on when we're not playing well
 
BushBlade said:
It's true that Cotterill has been in the job around the same time as Clough but Cooper has had two full seasons and Grayson two and a half.

Each of the clubs have taken different approaches to recruitment, as have other clubs that have got promoted from this league in recent years. When Fergie Jnr got Posh promoted lots of people were saying 'that's what we should do, sign hungry young players from the lower and non leagues'. When Swansea went up and did well in the Championship people said 'why can't we play possession based football, you don't need big lads hoofing it'.

But it's always as much about the execution as the philosophy. And allowing sufficient time for change. Should Grayson, after last season when he'd FAILED to get Preston promoted been sacked? With the benefit of hindsight, probably not. With Cooper's managerial record would we have wanted him anywhere near our club two years ago? Doubt it.

There's no magic formula to promotion. It's not a 'Blades thing' it's a football thing; the believe that if you do the opposite to what has just failed then you'll succeed. So if passing football fails, try hoof; if you have a quiet manager, get a loud one who jumps around, etc.

Clough hasn't fulfilled most people's expectations but nor has it been a total disaster - playoffs and a cup semi final in his first season. That should be enough to warrant another chance but the reaction from some supporters is like we've just escaped relegation. I know what division we're in and I know how long we've been in it. Neither is Clough's fault.

Grayson has, off the top of my head, one of the best recent records of getting clubs out of L1 and it's taken him two and a half seasons (at least) to sort Preston out. Why shouldn't Clough, or any other manager, be given the same?
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Well considered post BushBlade.

I'd also like to add to this view about Clough going after players he's (mostly) familiar with. If a player NC has worked with and he has confidence in should be available, I can see no objection to trying to sign said player. Davies is a good example, we've needed a muscular presence and so far he's done well. Clough has made it clear that COG was his priority, but for various reasons it hasn't worked out (yet!). So I just don't get this sniping about which club a player has played for, it's petty and narrow minded criticism. I guess that those who snipe just wanted any six foot lump, and as Clough has made clear more than once, signing the right player is the priority.
 
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robbiez666 said:
We lack drive on and off the pitch. There's no one who drags the team on when we're not playing well
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True but have we had one of those since Brown in midfield or Morgs in defence? H? Brayford in his loan spell maybe?
 
In a sense, Coady drove us forward last season, and Scougs at times. The ability of a player to get the ball and run through from midfield. It drives the team forward and gets the fans going.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Well considered post BushBlade.

I'd also like to add to this view about Clough going after players he's (mostly) familiar with. If a player NC has worked with and he has confidence in should be available, I can see no objection to trying to sign said player. Davies is a good example, we've needed a muscular presence and so far he's done well. Clough has made it clear that COG was his priority, but for various reasons it hasn't worked out (yet!). So I just don't get this sniping about which club a player has played for, it's petty and narrow minded criticism. I guess that those who snipe just wanted any six foot lump, and as Clough has made clear more than once, signing the right player is the priority.
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Seemed to work for Bassett and Warnock. In theory it reduces the risk of the signing failing. Perhaps less so in practice but it seems fairly apparent that Clough's approach is to try to build a squad where everyone is like minded and gets on, with no bad apples, because at this level team spirit is as important, perhaps more important, than technical ability.

I do think, long term, we need to widen our scouting network and be less reliant on whoever is the manager but the main focus right now is getting out of this league as quick as possible and if that is achieved by the manager 'signing all his mates' (as I once heard a Blade say about Bassett) I'm not really bothered.
 
Correct, Warnock was notorious for signing his old players. Not necessarily a bad thing
 
robbiez666 said:
In a sense, Coady drove us forward last season, and Scougs at times. The ability of a player to get the ball and run through from midfield. It drives the team forward and gets the fans going.
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In the second half of the season maybe but Coady was shit under Weir and when Clough first took over. I mean someone who does it consistantly. Shame we couldn't land Coady though, he looked a good player by the end of the season and might have been the one we're lacking.
 
BushBlade said:
Seemed to work for Bassett and Warnock. In theory it reduces the risk of the signing failing. Perhaps less so in practice but it seems fairly apparent that Clough's approach is to try to build a squad where everyone is like minded and gets on, with no bad apples, because at this level team spirit is as important, perhaps more important, than technical ability.

I do think, long term, we need to widen our scouting network and be less reliant on whoever is the manager but the main focus right now is getting out of this league as quick as possible and if that is achieved by the manager 'signing all his mates' (as I once heard a Blade say about Bassett) I'm not really bothered.
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Agree, if it enables us to take that next step and gain promotion, this season or next, then I'm happy for Clough to sign whoever he feels will make this happen. We all know the positions that need strengthening, so this summer's shopping list should result in no more than 5-7 players being signed to strengthen our squad.
 

BushBlade said:
It's true that Cotterill has been in the job around the same time as Clough but Cooper has had two full seasons and Grayson two and a half.

Each of the clubs have taken different approaches to recruitment, as have other clubs that have got promoted from this league in recent years. When Fergie Jnr got Posh promoted lots of people were saying 'that's what we should do, sign hungry young players from the lower and non leagues'. When Swansea went up and did well in the Championship people said 'why can't we play possession based football, you don't need big lads hoofing it'.

But it's always as much about the execution as the philosophy. And allowing sufficient time for change. Should Grayson, after last season when he'd FAILED to get Preston promoted been sacked? With the benefit of hindsight, probably not. With Cooper's managerial record would we have wanted him anywhere near our club two years ago? Doubt it.

There's no magic formula to promotion. It's not a 'Blades thing' it's a football thing; the believe that if you do the opposite to what has just failed then you'll succeed. So if passing football fails, try hoof; if you have a quiet manager, get a loud one who jumps around, etc.

Clough hasn't fulfilled most people's expectations but nor has it been a total disaster - playoffs and a cup semi final in his first season. That should be enough to warrant another chance but the reaction from some supporters is like we've just escaped relegation. I know what division we're in and I know how long we've been in it. Neither is Clough's fault.

Grayson has, off the top of my head, one of the best recent records of getting clubs out of L1 and it's taken him two and a half seasons (at least) to sort Preston out. Why shouldn't Clough, or any other manager, be given the same?
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Good post but.......

Grayson joined Preston in February 2013. Clough joined us in October 2013.

Anyway, it's the standard of incoming players which is my main theme . I think Nigel makes it hard for himself by appointing Simon.

If our team didn't look like a disorganised outfit of complete strangers then patience would be more appropriate. If N.Clough gets another season maybe S. Clough coud leave now.
 
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