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SW12 UTB

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First thread so don't be too harsh everyone!!

In my opinion the defence has been getting harsh criticism over the last few weeks, not least mcceverly who has been steady and plenty good enough with his composure but many have decided to have him as the scapegoat for some reason. Especially against Peterborough, where they were holding strong but then the midfield gave the ball away sloppily and then gave their player time on the edge of the box to find the bottom corner. Had this not happened i would have been confident of them holding on for a welcome clean sheet.

Oh and on the Peterborough note very poor team selection from clough, changing the formation when six games unbeaten and playing our only two fit strikers without leaving any in reserve on the bench giving him no option but to make negative changes.
 

Good first post and welcome. McEveley hasn't been harshly treated, fans have just pointed out the mistakes he's made, which has been quite a few to be fair and costly ones at that. You are right, McEveley is steady but is steady good enough?

Chopper is one of my favourite players and has done very well on most occasions this season and last season, he offers a lot more going forward than most of our midfield have done all season, can't really fault him in general. Now McEveley is great cover for Harris at left back because he's a good left back and not a CB, this has to be taken into account from us fans and realise where he should be playing, this is the fault of the management and it's their fault he gets put under so much scrutiny at times as he shouldn't be playing where he is but fair play to the bloke, he just gets on with it, you can't really fault that attitude at all.

On the whole we have done far too many basic mistakes at the back this season but if we'd have been scoring enough goals from the start then the errors would not have hardly been noticed, that's the key issue. The way Clough sets up you need to keep clean sheets.
 
to be honest yes i do think hes good enough at the moment as hes a better footballer than the other centre backs at the club (excluding Basham who id like to see in midfield), although he would need replacing if we got promoted as he'd get found out more by quicker/better strikers in the championship.
 
McEveley is okay - he comes out of defence Maguire-style and can contribute with the odd goal.

But have a butchers at the daylight between his boots and the turf for the Crawley goal. He hardly gets off the deck. Now okay, it's a fault ... but because he does this and that in the team doesn't absolve his of criticism for things like that. That particular shortcomng cost us two points. He also cost us at Spurs with a handball which I am still struggling with regarding what outcome he expected, and was torn a new arsehole a couple of times by Kane and Eriksson regarding pace and awareness.

pommpey
 
2 clean sheets in 4 months should be enough to tell anyone that our defence has not been good enough, no matter how good some of them are individually, no matter how excited we have been with the emergence of Kennedy, no matter how much people bang on about us having the 2 best full backs in the league.

Our defence, usually with a 5 man midfield in front of them, should be good enough to shut out more teams than they have done.
 
Good thread OP - I gave you a like :)

Go back in the season to the Swindon and Chesterfield away games and it was clear defence was a major problem in NC's eyes and in a rash moment he let emotion speak when he said the players were not good enough. More recently he has said they are not tall enough (nb being tall doesn't make you good in the air - look at Higdon). I suppose the big question for Nigel is, having identified the problem, what have you done to fix it.

We are in the business of "making do" in a number of departments. The central spine of the side is weak in all areas - GK / CH/ CM (playmaker/s)/ CF. We are much better equipped on the flanks - presumably why most of our forward play comes from there. (I'm no fan of JCR but the loan deal still mystifies me unless NC was under FFP pressure to lower the wage bill for other departments).

McEveley has his weaknesses and is playing out of position (as is Basham, although I think Basham is and will be a better defender than midfielder unless he replaces Doyle, where I think he could be more beneficial long term.). Put simply those two are about as good as we have got at the moment but they need to address the through ball which exposes McE's lack of pace if the defence is to play a higher line .

Kennedy has put in some good/decent performances but struggles to play twice a week and he lacks the height (same height as Baxter) to be truly dominant (didn't stop Joe Shaw - by god I wish we had him). Alcock lost form and is too short to play CH.The sale of HM1 hurt us particularly badly because his replacement is now at Doncaster and HM2 didn't really inspire and is now floundering with Tranmere. The McCarthy experiment hindered rather than helped. For whatever reasons the debatable value of Collins has been lost and all bridges burned by all accounts. Too late in the season to fix now I think so its make do and mend and hope McE, Basham and Kennedy can avoid injuries and suspensions.
 
First thread so don't be too harsh everyone!!

In my opinion the defence has been getting harsh criticism over the last few weeks, not least mcceverly who has been steady and plenty good enough with his composure but many have decided to have him as the scapegoat for some reason. Especially against Peterborough, where they were holding strong but then the midfield gave the ball away sloppily and then gave their player time on the edge of the box to find the bottom corner. Had this not happened i would have been confident of them holding on for a welcome clean sheet.

Oh and on the Peterborough note very poor team selection from clough, changing the formation when six games unbeaten and playing our only two fit strikers without leaving any in reserve on the bench giving him no option but to make negative changes.

Welcome to the forum!

I don't disagree that McEveley is getting the brunt of the criticism at the back. Sure he's made mistakes, but like you say he's not the only one.

Not making excuses for any of them, we've conceded a lot of sloppy goals recently and its frustrating. Simple things like set pieces, should be getting eliminated, but we're weak at them defensively. I thought the partnership with Terry Kennedy looked a stronger one than putting Basham in there. I mentioned it in January after Spurs, but Basham and McEveley, whilst being good individual players, don't work as solidly as McEv and Kennedy. I feel that McEv is a leader and needs to play that deeper, sweepers role. He needs a player like Kennedy alongside him or in this instance, in front of him. Bash and McEv seem too similar and neither of them seems to take charge.

The other issue is organisation on the pitch, whilst i like Doyle as captain, he sits in midfield and we don't have anyone commanding the back four like Morgs used to.
 
Welcome to the forum!

I don't disagree that McEveley is getting the brunt of the criticism at the back. Sure he's made mistakes, but like you say he's not the only one.

Not making excuses for any of them, we've conceded a lot of sloppy goals recently and its frustrating. Simple things like set pieces, should be getting eliminated, but we're weak at them defensively. I thought the partnership with Terry Kennedy looked a stronger one than putting Basham in there. I mentioned it in January after Spurs, but Basham and McEveley, whilst being good individual players, don't work as solidly as McEv and Kennedy. I feel that McEv is a leader and needs to play that deeper, sweepers role. He needs a player like Kennedy alongside him or in this instance, in front of him. Bash and McEv seem too similar and neither of them seems to take charge.

The other issue is organisation on the pitch, whilst another ex clough playeri like Doyle as captain, he sits in midfield and we don't have anyone commanding the back four like Morgs used to.
some good posts here on OUR DEFENDERS what stands out in them all is the fact we have no big dominant centre back we have missed maquire big time and still have a big hole there i would take barker if he proves his fitness as he is a like for like player would be a great signing if it is to be play offs .another ex clough player but would fit in well and a leader.
 
McEveley does make mistakes and seems to me to be our weakest defender.

That said, Bob's not been blameless the last few games eg Peterborough's second on Tuesday; a timid attempt to nick the ball off a charging forward, instead of a clean-everything-out tackle.

Part of our defensive frailty is a reluctance to ever hoof it into the stands. This is just a big part of the way we set up. Recognition by all concerned of the occasional need for a more primitive approach might be beneficial to our points tally.
 
Good centre halves might make 2 mistakes a season, McEveley seems to be dropping a couple of ricks every game. Not a good enough record for a defender at any level, but especially so in the professional game. He reminds me of Roger Nilsen, technically a good player but can't play a position effectively over a sustained period of time. That said McEveley, Basham or Kennedy would all benefit from being paired with a dominant centre half. I would make a case for McEveley as left back as Harris drops too many b0ll0cks as well.

When signing/selecting defenders any manager's first port of call is can they defend, that has to be a yes all way along the back line if your going to keep clean sheets on a regular basis. Brayford and Kennedy apart, I'd have big question marks over the rest of our defence.

I'd have Collins back in a flash, fine at third tier level and ridiculous that he gets overlooked for a full back and a midfield player.
 
Bob Harris seems to suffer from switching off; his concentration levels aren't as good as they need to be. Also, given the goals we have conceded from set pieces indicates we are struggling to organise ourselves at times. We have missed a commanding centra half all season but I still believe our defence isn't any worse than our peers, we just let ourselves down too frequently which is why we are 5th with 53 points and not in the top 2 with 10 more points. UTB
 
A defence needs consistency, something we have't really had.

Last year it was the same defence more or less all season especially January onwards, Harris - Maguire - Collins - Brayford, that defence were brilliant last year, this year i think we've used about 15 different defenders, infact lets run through defenders that have played this season..

Flynn (RB)
Harris
Brayford
Kennedy
Collins
Butler
McCarthey
McEveley
Freeman
Alcock
Basham
McGahey
Davies
 
The best cb pairing on that list is butler and Collins
 

Collins has never impressed me as he was never a good enough footballer which was masked through Maguires ability so he never got found out. Though yes I agree we are in desperate need of a commanding centre back as soon as possible, so we can move bash into cm and so jay/tel can both benefit from an out and out centre back partner
 
2 clean sheets in 4 months should be enough to tell anyone that our defence has not been good enough, no matter how good some of them are individually, no matter how excited we have been with the emergence of Kennedy, no matter how much people bang on about us having the 2 best full backs in the league.

Our defence, usually with a 5 man midfield in front of them, should be good enough to shut out more teams than they have done.

Good points but I think it's the way we're set up that is putting the defence under undue pressure. The other night v. Peterborough we (once again) invited the opposition to 'come on' to us for stupidly long passages of play. Ditto Preston in the Cup.

Fleetwood will have been briefed that, if they put pressure on us, we'll revert to our now-familiar 'rabbit in headlights' panic, useless boots upfield and crowd frustration. It really must be easy scouting against United - it's all so predicatble.

What should be happening is that we have had enough time, money and crowd backing to make the Lane a fortress with an attitude, when the opposition try to force us back, of 'So you bloody think so, do you?' and make them fearful of crossing the halfway line. This starts at the kick-off - something we lamentably fail to do.

Instead, we roll out the red carpet and make blind-panic substitutions (which, injuries apart, are an admission that the starting line-up isn't working.)
 
Fair enough on the OP.

As an aside have we really started saying "We're all Blades aren't we?". It's a longstanding Wendy phrase, surely we can do better than Nick that??!?!!

Or am I just curmudgeonly - I also thinK 'everywhere we go' is utter shite as well as its been sung for a number of seasons up and down the country, including PIGLAND!
 
Welcome to the forum!

I don't disagree that McEveley is getting the brunt of the criticism at the back. Sure he's made mistakes, but like you say he's not the only one.

Not making excuses for any of them, we've conceded a lot of sloppy goals recently and its frustrating. Simple things like set pieces, should be getting eliminated, but we're weak at them defensively. I thought the partnership with Terry Kennedy looked a stronger one than putting Basham in there. I mentioned it in January after Spurs, but Basham and McEveley, whilst being good individual players, don't work as solidly as McEv and Kennedy. I feel that McEv is a leader and needs to play that deeper, sweepers role. He needs a player like Kennedy alongside him or in this instance, in front of him. Bash and McEv seem too similar and neither of them seems to take charge.

The other issue is organisation on the pitch, whilst i like Doyle as captain, he sits in midfield and we don't have anyone commanding the back four like Morgs used to.

Swiss , organisation and leadership on the pitch imo has been missing all season . However all will be forgiven if we get promotion . Next season we cannot make the same mistakes whatever league we finish up in.

League 1 players unfortunately make league 1 mistakes. That why anybody can beat anybody in this league.



UTB
 
McEveley is okay - he comes out of defence Maguire-style and can contribute with the odd goal.

But have a butchers at the daylight between his boots and the turf for the Crawley goal. He hardly gets off the deck. Now okay, it's a fault ... but because he does this and that in the team doesn't absolve his of criticism for things like that. That particular shortcomng cost us two points. He also cost us at Spurs with a handball which I am still struggling with regarding what outcome he expected, and was torn a new arsehole a couple of times by Kane and Eriksson regarding pace and awareness.

pommpey

Saying he cost us at Spurs is incredibly harsh. He played very, very well and made one mistake. Who else would you have had there? Collins?!

Judging a league one player by his performance against two of the best players in the country at the moment isnt fair. Im surprised at you Pompey!
 
The best cb pairing on that list is butler and Collins

on what basis?

Was right behind them first game at Burton - utter useless pairing. Interestingly Collins played on the right which suggest Butler was left sided. Ok, so it was the first preseason game but they were shocking for 45 minutes when it was the first time to impress NC in a game together - they did themselves on favours.

Not sure if the played together after that, but Butler was soon gone.

UTB
 
And you know this because????? Oh that's right, you don't.

No I don't because I've not seen enough of them together. Its an opinion, isn't what this forum is about?

It's based on what I've seen of Collins and butler in this league over the past few seasons. Collins/butler with Kennedy would be my next best pairing.

There are only five CB's on there. The problem is weve see too many play there this season out of position.
 
on what basis?

Was right behind them first game at Burton - utter useless pairing. Interestingly Collins played on the right which suggest Butler was left sided. Ok, so it was the first preseason game but they were shocking for 45 minutes when it was the first time to impress NC in a game together - they did themselves on favours.

Not sure if the played together after that, but Butler was soon gone.

UTB

Based more on what I've seen of them over the past few seasons in this week. The whole side were shocking that day at burton and I think the fact our preseason started later than their's played a part in the performance that day.

They're both natural centre backs unlike the likes of Alcock, mceveley and basham who've all played there this season. And the less we say about mcgahey the better.
 
Based more on what I've seen of them over the past few seasons in this week. The whole side were shocking that day at burton and I think the fact our preseason started later than their's played a part in the performance that day.

They're both natural centre backs unlike the likes of Alcock, mceveley and basham who've all played there this season. And the less we say about mcgahey the better.

Disappointed we didn't get to see Butler - Walsall fans had him as a top player at this level, but if the rumours we heard were true then my support is with Clough/Morgan.

Never liked Collins - was part of the problem when we came down (M Adams signing) and did little to say he could even be decent at this level. He was always part of the problem defending - hence his demotion.

Agree about Basham/Mceverley - nice footballers - stand it centre halves - once again my chestnut all season. Mceveleys attempt at stopping the Crawley goal (as eluded to by pommpey) was woeful. If watch his attempted intervention with P'boro's 2nd goal on the half way line explains why he is never going to be a centre half.

As for Mcgahey - so much promise, and promoted before he was ready due to issue above.

Some fans have bemoaned a centre forward all season, but if we don't go up I feel it will be that we just haven't solved the CH issue properly. Perhaps decent replacements aren't available, but it could cost us dear.

UTB
 
since the Paddy debacle, it's seemed that Clough hasn't been trying to get a CB in. Which is slightly bizarre since he brought him in because we had a problem.

Neither Basham nor J-Mac are good enough to play at CB on a long term basis. Both are ok for cover but haven't had the experience of playing there.

The obvious thing to do would be to bring in a loan signing to play there.

The other option would be to play 5 at the back with a sweeper.
 
Fair enough on the OP.

As an aside have we really started saying "We're all Blades aren't we?". It's a longstanding Wendy phrase, surely we can do better than Nick that??!?!!

Or am I just curmudgeonly - I also thinK 'everywhere we go' is utter shite as well as its been sung for a number of seasons up and down the country, including PIGLAND!

Agree. We have far more class than those skid marks. I think it was started by some Serb who obviously thought the Bosnia war was still on - 'This city is ours' :rolleyes:

blades.jpg
 
since the Paddy debacle, it's seemed that Clough hasn't been trying to get a CB in. Which is slightly bizarre since he brought him in because we had a problem.

Neither Basham nor J-Mac are good enough to play at CB on a long term basis. Both are ok for cover but haven't had the experience of playing there.

The obvious thing to do would be to bring in a loan signing to play there.

The other option would be to play 5 at the back with a sweeper.

bizarre indeed - didn't think Paddy Mc was that bad - he clearly wasn't match fit but at least was competitive in our own box. Getting him fit for Colin, and only arriving Thursday evening for just Friday training was weird and didn't so us any favours.

Slightly perturbed we now have 1 fit (Collins) CH at the club.

Be interesting to see in Shaun Barker gets a look in - we could do with someone at 6' 3"

UTB
 
bizarre indeed - didn't think Paddy Mc was that bad - he clearly wasn't match fit but at least was competitive in our own box. Getting him fit for Colin, and only arriving Thursday evening for just Friday training was weird and didn't so us any favours.

Slightly perturbed we now have 1 fit (Collins) CH at the club.

Be interesting to see in Shaun Barker gets a look in - we could do with someone at 6' 3"

UTB

Letting him stay down and train in London was bizarre. I don't understand that at all.
 

As an aside have we really started saying "We're all Blades aren't we?". It's a longstanding Wendy phrase, surely we can do better than Nick that??!?!!

In my defense the first time I ever heard that phrase was at Wembley against Huddersfield so had no idea who made it first, especially with the pigs claiming we stole almost every one of our songs from them, so it's impossible to tell which songs/phrases (if any) we've actually taken from them.
 

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