Tonights Corporate Meeting With The Chairman

[1danewhitehouse]

Got about a third of the way through this and gave up. Seems like McCabe can say any old bollocks to you lot and not be challenged effectively. I am astounded that you buy that he's put millions in yet here we are, still in shit street. You buy every single line of his crap blaming every single manager, yet all the discernable talent this club has ever owned has been flogged to the first and lowest bidder, with nothing to show regarding betterment by re-investment. No prove whatsoever regarding 'improvements', no challenge on 'undisclosed' fees and apparently no gasps of disgust at this ridiculous statement of cash 'when' we are promoted. Is that our Football League One prize money, perchance? You are quite willing to accept that McCabe's honest belief we can forge platinum out of dogshit, creating our very own pool of Championship-ready players and then resist any shitty offers from Brighton, Wolves or QPR. I mean, what does he expect will keep us as a Championship side if we don't have the squad ... in depth as well ... to sustain that position let alone attain it? It's like an asthmatic blowing a fucking balloon up with a hole in it.

It seems some are a little star struck by the gift that Mr McCabe has magnanimously offered an audience with the restless natives. Booga-fucking-loo. He is accountable and a consistent entity in this club's demise and it's sustained, continued presence in the third tier in English football. Managers come and managers go ... thanks to him and his ability to fuck them over and blame them for the failures. The supporters still resiliently turn up and buy season tickets. The players are the most fluid entity in this equation. Being as we supporters don't buy and pick the team and the managers are ten a penny, the only consistent thing is him, and you're still acting as though he has a credible answer for it all.

Nothing personal, but get your heads out of your arses, eh?

pommpey

But….. it was all down to bad luck…. And that damn (insert manager name)…. And Phipps. He talked on social media. How the fuck could we get promoted when he’s doing that?...... and Jacob Esan said he was a prince who would give us billions……. None of it’s our Kev’s fault. He’s invested £8million this season alone apart from the half of that invested by the Prince ……… and he’s bought us a magnificent new pitch to watch our football be played……… and without him, we could end up like Southampton or Leicester.... our failures are certainly not down to appointing fine managers like Robson or choosing Wilson when we could have had the manager who went on to win the Champions league and FA cup that year.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No, he explained that the plan was always to up the level of spending at Championship level, as it's far more important there these days.

He stated that they had not expected to have not reached that level by now and were disappointed that this was the case.

It's logical and sensible... providing that the getting to that level is addressed soon.

I get that and it does tally with what has been said. The restrictions Adkins has worked under this season don’t seem to tally though nor do Phipps’s comments at the end of Jan.


Did Kev indicate that there would be continued significant investment whilst we are in this league (but not as much as when we get to the championship)? For example, can we carry a similar wage bill to this season? If so, with the number of players moved on over the course of the season and those dues to leave in the summer, you would think there would be quite a bit of room to bring in a few players of better quality either on frees or loans.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Actually Barney the quote was even more direct, I've found the link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03t1khc

3.15 in, 'We won't want to keep unhappy players'. The whole piece about player retention starts at 3.00

My point is that the Blades aren't unique in this. If a team that has just won the Premiere League are concerned and indeed would not stand in the way of a player then the whole 'They're under contract, f#ck em' doesn't seem that realistic.

Think about it, a club in a higher league offers you double treble or even quadruple your salary and will pay the going rate to your club to buy you but your club say 'f#ck 'em and f#ck you, you're stopping'.

Regardless of what you think should be the case, how would you feel? And how rightly or wrongly might that impact on your future performances and perhaps more importantly the moral of the team?

The argument is not without merit but at the same time, do we have to sell every time without even squeezing particularly good fees out of the buying club?


I can accept the Jagielka deal. We insisted he stay in the first instance and help us get promoted. He did that and both parties were happy for him to stay and have a crack with us in the Prem so long as he had an escape in the event of relegation at a fee that clubs would only pay if he had proven himself capable.


As far as I know Blackman wasn’t desperate to move, didn’t submit a transfer request etc. McCabe just saw a chance for a quick profit at the expense of a decent chance at promotion.


To some extent I can even accept the McDonald situation as he was a free agent in the summer of 2012 and it may have been a case of accept the clause or lose him for nowt. It is disappointing though that given that we were about to announce “game-changing” investment, we couldn’t persuade him to stay over going to a divisional rival.


Then we move onto Maguire. We repeatedly said we didn’t have to sell. He had a year left on his contract. At the end of the contract we would have got compensation for him. He could have made all the difference to our promotion chances as he had finished the previous season in immense form and was young and improving. Yes Hull came in, offered more money, prem football (well, bench/reserves). It’s understandable to want to go. But at the same time, we were within our rights to say to him “you’re staying til the end of the season. If you perform well and help us get up, you will be able to get a move to a better club than Hull and we won’t be able to stop you.” He could have sulked but he was never going to be held against his will for more than another 10 months. That should have been a driving factor for him to go out and advertise himself to clubs across the land and write his name into Sheffield United folk-law. The fact we couldn’t persuade him to honour his contract and sold him for a sum that wasn’t particularly big for a player of his value to us and potential is damming.


Then Murphy. Delighted to sign a new contract in January after the birth of his child. Putting down roots. Baki and co mouthing off that people can only take him from us on a video game etc. Fast forward 6 months or so and we can’t hold him against his will. When the offer came in we could have said “you’ve been here 2.5 years and were utterly crap for the first year but we showed faith in you. Now you and the club are moving forward. Brighton have made a bid but it doesn’t match our valuation. As it stands, you’ll be staying. If you help get us promoted you’ll be able to pick better clubs than Brighton and on better terms.”


Also, how the fuck can Brighton “double or triple” his salary. We have big gates, “game-changing” investment etc. Sure they have championship TV money but they’re not some mega rich club or indeed a Prem club. I get that they can offer more than us but surely not vastly more?


All clubs sell good players. That is accepted. But how many clubs sell any and every player that proves themselves to be better than the rest season on season? A few. But mainly tiny clubs like Crewe who rely on that approach to keep going. Can anyone tell me any decent sized club that does it to the extent we do? We are Sheffield United. We have 20,000 fans through the turnstiles, we supposedly have significant investment. Yet we conduct our business like we’re Crewe/ Chesterifeld/Swindon etc.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I get that and it does tally with what has been said. The restrictions Adkins has worked under this season don’t seem to tally though nor do Phipps’s comments at the end of Jan.


Did Kev indicate that there would be continued significant investment whilst we are in this league (but not as much as when we get to the championship)? For example, can we carry a similar wage bill to this season? If so, with the number of players moved on over the course of the season and those dues to leave in the summer, you would think there would be quite a bit of room to bring in a few players of better quality either on frees or loans.

After losing £9 million in the last two years and the fact that £8million has been needed this year it depends what you call "investment"?

Most of the money put into the club has gone on trading losses. Without a (worryingly) significant reduction in the wage bill, as things stand there will be continuing losses even with a determined promotion push.

In effect it's "shit AND bust"

 

[Sean Thornton]

The argument is not without merit but at the same time, do we have to sell every time without even squeezing particularly good fees out of the buying club?


I can accept the Jagielka deal. We insisted he stay in the first instance and help us get promoted. He did that and both parties were happy for him to stay and have a crack with us in the Prem so long as he had an escape in the event of relegation at a fee that clubs would only pay if he had proven himself capable.


As far as I know Blackman wasn’t desperate to move, didn’t submit a transfer request etc. McCabe just saw a chance for a quick profit at the expense of a decent chance at promotion.


To some extent I can even accept the McDonald situation as he was a free agent in the summer of 2012 and it may have been a case of accept the clause or lose him for nowt. It is disappointing though that given that we were about to announce “game-changing” investment, we couldn’t persuade him to stay over going to a divisional rival.


Then we move onto Maguire. We repeatedly said we didn’t have to sell. He had a year left on his contract. At the end of the contract we would have got compensation for him. He could have made all the difference to our promotion chances as he had finished the previous season in immense form and was young and improving. Yes Hull came in, offered more money, prem football (well, bench/reserves). It’s understandable to want to go. But at the same time, we were within our rights to say to him “you’re staying til the end of the season. If you perform well and help us get up, you will be able to get a move to a better club than Hull and we won’t be able to stop you.” He could have sulked but he was never going to be held against his will for more than another 10 months. That should have been a driving factor for him to go out and advertise himself to clubs across the land and write his name into Sheffield United folk-law. The fact we couldn’t persuade him to honour his contract and sold him for a sum that wasn’t particularly big for a player of his value to us and potential is damming.


Then Murphy. Delighted to sign a new contract in January after the birth of his child. Putting down roots. Baki and co mouthing off that people can only take him from us on a video game etc. Fast forward 6 months or so and we can’t hold him against his will. When the offer came in we could have said “you’ve been here 2.5 years and were utterly crap for the first year but we showed faith in you. Now you and the club are moving forward. Brighton have made a bid but it doesn’t match our valuation. As it stands, you’ll be staying. If you help get us promoted you’ll be able to pick better clubs than Brighton and on better terms.”


Also, how the fuck can Brighton “double or triple” his salary. We have big gates, “game-changing” investment etc. Sure they have championship TV money but they’re not some mega rich club or indeed a Prem club. I get that they can offer more than us but surely not vastly more?


All clubs sell good players. That is accepted. But how many clubs sell any and every player that proves themselves to be better than the rest season on season? A few. But mainly tiny clubs like Crewe who rely on that approach to keep going. Can anyone tell me any decent sized club that does it to the extent we do? We are Sheffield United. We have 20,000 fans through the turnstiles, we supposedly have significant investment. Yet we conduct our business like we’re Crewe/ Chesterifeld/Swindon etc.

2013/2014 and 2014/2015, Brightons turnover was more than double ours.

 

[MobileBlade]

A period of notice isn't a legal thing. It is more a courtesy. You don't break bridges with your employer and he will give you a good reference.
There is nothing stopping someone saying stuff you I'm off and walking out. Would an employer drag them back and say "Not until you've worked your notice"
There are thousands of people who walk out of work without giving notice.
Many years ago before I became self employed I handed my notice in properly. My boss said he didn't want me around the workplace spreading negativity and paid me and my notice up.

It is a legal thing - it is a breach of contract. As with any breach you can be sued for substantiated loss and costs. I know company who did this recently to a former employee. The employee lost his case and finished up amongst other things paying the agency costs incurred by the employer to cover the position whilst a new employee was recruited. He was on 3 months notice so it finished up costing him several thousand pounds.

 

[MobileBlade]

If you leave your job during your notice period the employer can sue you but it's actually only a very small amount they can sue you for. In most cases if it went to a tribunal the employer would be told they could have got a temp in to cover you during your notice period and in that case they could only sue you for the difference between your salary and that of any temp worker during that time. I know this because I had a major running battle with my previous employer who insisted on keeping me to my notice period of 3 months even though I was only staying with the client where I was based for 6 weeks. I threatened to leave as soon as my client placement was up and the head of HR eventually told me to go as there was nothing they could really do about it.

They'd already given my new employer my reference by then anyway

As I said in other post, it would also include the agency costs, and any other incurred losses. It wouldn't be at an ET, it would go to County Court and failure to pay could mean a CC default being logged against you. This in turn could affect your ability to obtain another position.

Here is the relevant case law. Cost this guy £168,000!

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2014/2633.html

 

[1danewhitehouse]

After losing £9 million in the last two years and the fact that £8million has been needed this year it depends what you call "investment"?

Most of the money put into the club has gone on trading losses. Without a (worryingly) significant reduction in the wage bill, as things stand there will be continuing losses even with a determined promotion push.

In effect it's "shit AND bust"

Yeah I get that. What I mean is are McCabe and the prince prepared to cover those sorts of losses so we can continue to have a go or are we scaling back to the club "standing on it's own fee" or somewhere in between?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

2013/2014 and 2014/2015, Brightons turnover was more than double ours.

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Didn't think Championship TV money or Prize money was that much compared to gate receipts etc.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yeah I get that. What I mean is are McCabe and the prince prepared to cover those sorts of losses so we can continue to have a go or are we scaling back to the club "standing on it's own fee" or somewhere in between?

That's the million dollar question which is being skirted around

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Didn't think Championship TV money or Prize money was that much compared to gate receipts etc.

I knew it would be a fair bit more but not double. It shows you how far behind we are and more worryingly if we can ever make it up.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

But the issue with Murphy wasn't money. He wanted to play in the Championship to better his chances of an international call-up. Pray tell, in our position, what were we supposed to do about that?

A serious question for everyone who says we have no choice but to sell if a player wants to leave.
What if it was Sheffield Wednesday who wanted to buy Murphy (or Maguire or Blackman or Brayford etc)?
What if Wednesday offered £500K rather than amount we actually received?
What if the player in question was adamant that they wanted to leave and play for Sheffield Wednesday?

What is your answer to the player in that scenario?
If you want to leave and join Wednesday for £500K, we can't stop you?

Where do you draw the line and at what point do you say NO?

 

[super_pig]

Actually Barney the quote was even more direct, I've found the link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03t1khc

3.15 in, 'We won't want to keep unhappy players'. The whole piece about player retention starts at 3.00

My point is that the Blades aren't unique in this. If a team that has just won the Premiere League are concerned and indeed would not stand in the way of a player then the whole 'They're under contract, f#ck em' doesn't seem that realistic.

Think about it, a club in a higher league offers you double treble or even quadruple your salary and will pay the going rate to your club to buy you but your club say 'f#ck 'em and f#ck you, you're stopping'.

Regardless of what you think should be the case, how would you feel? And how rightly or wrongly might that impact on your future performances and perhaps more importantly the moral of the team?

players are always going to want to leave.. even Leicester are going to have problems. the thing that worries me is that there seems to be no plan for replacing players. you'd think they'd have a plan that says for every position in the team.. if x leaves .. we try and buy y and if not z etc..
i believe it is called contingency planning

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Didn't think Championship TV money or Prize money was that much compared to gate receipts etc.

Brighton are a bigger club than you think now.
Since they moved into their new ground, their average attendance has been much bigger than ours (and most in their division):-

 

[Drunk blade]

Whilst jamie vardy was having a party the players paused for a moment.... 'lads I know we've just won the premier league but this really doesn't count ... we've been in administration... if only we were a well run club that could stand on our own two feet ... like sheffield united'

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I knew it would be a fair bit more but not double. It shows you how far behind we are and more worryingly if we can ever make it up.

I suppose there's the issue of everything costing more in the south. Tickets, merchandise etc. are probably charged at more meaning turnover is higher. Wages ought in turn to be higher to match the higher cost of living.

 

[boo radley]

My point was that we weren't "much better off" in 2004.

Paying 12 players £5k or more - I have no idea if it's accurate - hardly means we are richer. It means we incur bigger losses that the owners have to fund.

And McCabe has continually fucked up.
Leaving it to others then coming in when he thinks things are going wrong. No good blaming Clough for overspending when he had no one keeping an eye on it.
Some times he reacts to the fans wishes then some times impulsive. Then some times to others, as with Wilson.
Get a grip man andctake control or bugger off, would be what I'd say to him.

 

[Sean Thornton]

And McCabe has continually fucked up.
Leaving it to others then coming in when he thinks things are going wrong. No good blaming Clough for overspending when he had no one keeping an eye on it.
Some times he reacts to the fans wishes then some times impulsive. Then some times to others, as with Wilson.
Get a grip man andctake control or bugger off, would be what I'd say to him.

Yep. I've said the same about blaming Clough because he's clearly learned nothing by giving the cheque book to others in the past. You think they'd get monthly management accounts particularly with SCMP updates needing to be filed. If NC. and MB screwed up, the owners were fiddling while Rome burned.


( and I know the fiddle wasn't invented until after Nero's time for smartarses, it's a saying, like "McCabes making millions out of the club". Ie no basis in reality )

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Whilst jamie vardy was having a party the players paused for a moment.... 'lads I know we've just won the premier league but this really doesn't count ... we've been in administration... if only we were a well run club that could stand on our own two feet ... like sheffield united'

Aiui "administration" means your creditors and perhaps more importantly for McCabe your employees either don't get paid or get paid a (small) proportion of what they are owed.

He mentioned 900 employees - at a stretch - and the club's duty to them.

Mr Vardy and his colleagues may not care, McCabe has a different view.

It's a long time ago but, for instance, a Leicester ambulance charity is still owed a few thousand quid.

Who cares?

 

[Grappler]

Aiui "administration" means your creditors and perhaps more importantly for McCabe your employees either don't get paid or get paid a (small) proportion of what they are owed.

He mentioned 900 employees - at a stretch - and the club's duty to them.

Mr Vardy and his colleagues may not care, McCabe has a different view.

It's a long time ago but, for instance, a Leicester ambulance charity is still owed a few thousand quid.

Who cares?

That is actually pretty bad if true.

 

[PeteBlade]

Look at the squad we had.

A trained Chimp could have got that lot promoted.

If you completely simultaneously misunderstood and simplified how football management works I guess.

 

[PeteBlade]

I knew it would be a fair bit more but not double. It shows you how far behind we are and more worryingly if we can ever make it up.

I went to a question and answer session that Danny Wilson did when he first joined and he stressed the importance of us getting promoted that season as he feared that the gap even between the likes of us and the championship would only get bigger and bigger and think we'd easily bridge it.

And that was what, 4 years ago?

 

[alcoblade]

Aiui "administration" means your creditors and perhaps more importantly for McCabe your employees either don't get paid or get paid a (small) proportion of what they are owed.

He mentioned 900 employees - at a stretch - and the club's duty to them.

Mr Vardy and his colleagues may not care, McCabe has a different view.

It's a long time ago but, for instance, a Leicester ambulance charity is still owed a few thousand quid.

Who cares?

It's the "900 employees" we should be addressing, As well as the exorbitant wages for third division players.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

It's the "900 employees" we should be addressing, As well as the exorbitant wages for third division players.

UTB

The 900 employees was counting everyone he could think of including (his example) matchday catering staff.

This actually came up in the context of administration.

Whilst the 900 was maybe stretching the point, what I took from this was that he was saying he felt a sense of duty, responsibility, and even community.

None of this was made explicit, but that to me was the most obvious take on what he said.

 

[Ben_1982]

The 900 employees was counting everyone he could think of including (his example) matchday catering staff.

This actually came up in the context of administration.

Whilst the 900 was maybe stretching the point, what I took from this was that he was saying he felt a sense of duty, responsibility, and even community.

None of this was made explicit, but that to me was the most obvious take on what he said.

Match day catering staff, who are employed by compass not the club

 

[PeteBlade]

I went to a question and answer session that Danny Wilson did when he first joined and he stressed the importance of us getting promoted that season as he feared that the gap even between the likes of us and the championship would only get bigger and bigger and think we'd easily bridge it.

And that was what, 4 years ago?

Sorry that should have read that we WOULDN'T easily be able to bridge it.

 

[alcoblade]

The 900 employees was counting everyone he could think of including (his example) matchday catering staff.

This actually came up in the context of administration.

Whilst the 900 was maybe stretching the point, what I took from this was that he was saying he felt a sense of duty, responsibility, and even community.

None of this was made explicit, but that to me was the most obvious take on what he said.

I'm sure you're right. But he's got to stop thinking like a charity and start thinking like a lean business, spending money only where needed.

Our cost base is just too high and needs addressing.

UTB

 

[Drunk blade]

The 900 employees was counting everyone he could think of including (his example) matchday catering staff.

This actually came up in the context of administration.

Whilst the 900 was maybe stretching the point, what I took from this was that he was saying he felt a sense of duty, responsibility, and even community.

None of this was made explicit, but that to me was the most obvious take on what he said.

More spin from mccabe... in the event that the club went into administration the staff would all more than likely tupe transfer across to whoever buys the club...

Leicester, Southampton, Crystal palace etc etc came back stronger after admin and now employ more people than they did

 

[raul]

More spin from mccabe... in the event that the club went into administration the staff would all more than likely tupe transfer across to whoever buys the club...

Leicester, Southampton, Crystal palace etc etc came back stronger after admin and now employ more people than they did

It's actually more spin from Foulkesy, given he's admitted Kev never said anything of the sort.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

More spin from mccabe... in the event that the club went into administration the staff would all more than likely tupe transfer across to whoever buys the club...

Leicester, Southampton, Crystal palace etc etc came back stronger after admin and now employ more people than they did

So McCabe shouldn't pay the club's employees?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/leicester-city-urged-pay-16000-7828816

Premier League table-toppers Leicester City have been urged to pay a £16,000 bill owed to the East Midlands Ambulance Service.

The Foxes owed the money for work carried out on matchdays when they went into administration in 2002.

Leicester are big favourites to win a first league title and are guaranteed to be playing Champions League football next term.

A place at Europe's top table is expected to net the club £100million, and they have now been urged to pay up as a 'goodwill gesture'.

A spokesman for The Ambulance Service Charity told The Sun: “The ambulance service was forced to write off this money when Leicester City were facing financial difficulties.

Who cares? As Bill Shankly said: Football is more important than life and death and mortgages.