9th in the PL. Was it The System or The Personnel?

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Momentum and a team building was absolutely key that year. Add a bit of luck and our fan base and it meant we got to go on that journey.


This season we haven't had any momentum and that as lead to no luck and a very disengaged fan base (apart from away from home where you all have been incredible for the most part).

our key players last season were:

Ndiaye (sold)
Berge (sold)
Mcatee (loan, ok we got him back but he isn't our player)
Doyle (loan)

We lost a lot of experience in the summer (I would argue correctly based on playing time) but with that I think we also lost what we needed this season which was a bit of fire and I wonder if they would have accepted such laziness by some of the squad.

You could argue that without injuries that was our 2nd team back line on saturday...


Egan (wasn't great before injury but we have lost a leader)
Basham (as above)
RND (our first choice LB surely)
Baldock (defensively our number 1 RB and another leader)
 

shorehamview said:
The problems we had when bringing a lot of players was they were seen as backup to the starting eleven rather than upgrades, or even equals. They came in as second best options for most of the positions, and we wasted a lot of money.
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Question is: Is a single season/three transfer windows enough to build/galvanize/craft a mostly new squad capable of getting promoted and maintaining a position, if those players have the 'right' mentality but are of lesser technical/athletic quality?
 
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Personally I think it was two factors . First and most importantly for me was what a well balanced unit we were . EVERYONE knew their job. Secondly the Premier League never took us seriously and got caught out . The overlapping full back thing was bollocks . A few others were doing it as well ( notably Citeh who have turned it to an art form )
Get the spine of the team right ✅
Get players who understand their role ✅
Improve overall squad depth /fitness ✅
Sign players willing to die for club ✅
Get manager who understands modern football ✅
 
Loco Blade said:
Personally I think it was two factors . First and most importantly for me was what a well balanced unit we were . EVERYONE knew their job. Secondly the Premier League never took us seriously and got caught out . The overlapping full back thing was bollocks . A few others were doing it as well ( notably Citeh who have turned it to an art form )
Get the spine of the team right ✅
Get players who understand their role ✅
Improve overall squad depth /fitness ✅
Sign players willing to die for club ✅
Get manager who understands modern football ✅
Click to expand...

As I've asked elsewhere, do you think a single season/three transfer windows is enough to build and galvanize a team like the one that came from L1 that can solidify a position in the PL? I'm not sure it's enough time. We may get promoted, but the running through brick walls aspect, the secret sauce, isn't bought it's bred and that takes time.
 
Geordie Blade said:
We also had a bit of luck. Fine margins and all that. Barely any injuries at all. A top goalkeeper.

We won a fair few games 1-0 that could easily have gone the other way, and we would have still thought that, say, 13th place would have been a brilliant season.

I remember us being brilliant going forward that season, but yet we only scored 8 goals more that season than we've scored so far this season (and don't forget that We'Re ThE wOrSt TeAm EvEr right now).

Another huge difference is the pace of the play. Watch one of the full 2019/20 games back now, and it's staggering how fast we are, both with and without the ball. This season (and in 2020/21), it's painfully pedestrian. I don't know whether that's down to other teams being able to dictate the pace, or we just don't have the bravery.
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I dont recall us being that good going forward tbh, we were just fantastic at the back.
 
Ron_Justice said:
As I've asked elsewhere, do you think a single season/three transfer windows is enough to build and galvanize a team like the one that came from L1 that can solidify a position in the PL? I'm not sure it's enough time. We may get promoted, but the running through brick walls aspect, the secret sauce, isn't bought it's bred and that takes time.
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Even if we got the recruitment right ( we probably won't) I doubt they'll gel in time to get promoted next season. The only thing to look forward to next season is the possibility that we beat the pigs at least once (if they stay up that is)
 
O'Connell, the one and only reason. Nobody could figure out a centre half overlapping the left midfielder and then overlapping the overlapping full back, and they still wouldn't be able to if he was still here. It also gave Basham a bit of freedom to do it from the other side. Norwood could then do what he likes doing and sit back.

So of course a career ending injury was never far away, that was just about the only predictable thing about his game that you could see happening
 
Ron_Justice said:
If memory serves, once the bigger teams sussed that pressing our FB's deep into our half (basically the 2nd half of the first PL season), we didn't really have an alternative consistent way of building attacks. So while we may have not lost that many games, we stopped winning as many.
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The only teams that sussed us out that season were Liverpool, City (both simply too good), Southampton for some reason and Newcastle, who - it must be acknowledged - had the tactical genius of Steve Bruce masterminding their smash and grab on us.
 
SwissBlade said:
We did things which hadn’t been seen before. Overlapping centre halves and overloads all over the pitch, plus we had awkward players like mousset with is pace and power, smart experience of Didsy and Billy, McBurnie to battle, even Robinson caused problems up top for the short period he was with us. pacey wing backs and a well protected midfielder spraying balls about.

It helped that the spine was consistent, solid and injury free and that we had a very consistent keeper
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Great points. And once it had been seen we didn't adapt. Basically we stood still as the rest of the PL got more athletic and dynamic.

We're now reaping the 'rewards' of 4 years of shite/non-existent recruitment and not evolving the squad.

Unless we get very lucky with recruitment I'm struggling to see how we finish top 6 next year. Our last two years in the Championship (3 if you include the previous promotion) we've had the best number 10's in the division (MGW, Ndiaye, McAtee - Didzy). Without a player of that ilk, I'm worried we won't have the athleticism 1-11 to be competitive.
 
Stevens and Baldock had no little impact in that first season,steady wingbacks and we had few injuries so we fielded the same team more or less week in week out. Confidence was high in that team.
 
SUFC Guy said:
It was both that really worked, but......

Wilder would get 1 more year at this 👍

Half the squad will change this season and add new players to these:

Arblaster
Brooks
Bogle
Robinson
Trusty
Osborne
Hamer
Davies
Osula
Jebbinson
Basham 🙏
Baldock
Egan
RND 🙏
McBurnie (poss)

I may have missed a few.


These are either returning loans or can F off :)

McAtee
Diaz
Holgate
Archer


Souza
Anel
Traorre
Larouci
Fodders
Grbic
Davies
Norwood
Slimane
Brewster


Starting 11 for next season and we need additions!

A. Davies

Baldock Egan Robinson

Bogle Arblaster Hamer Brooks RND

Jebbison Osula


I would say that we need at least 1 additional player for each position and 2 keepers.
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Baldock, Jebbo, Mcburnie, RND, Egan and Adam Davies are all out of contract, unless you know something we don't???

AND IF Brewster, who's still in contract, and there's no way we get a bid for him, can stay fit, I think he might come good next season.

Are you ITK???
 
Loco Blade said:
Personally I think it was two factors . First and most importantly for me was what a well balanced unit we were . EVERYONE knew their job. Secondly the Premier League never took us seriously and got caught out . The overlapping full back thing was bollocks . A few others were doing it as well ( notably Citeh who have turned it to an art form )
Get the spine of the team right ✅
Get players who understand their role ✅
Improve overall squad depth /fitness ✅
Sign players willing to die for club ✅
Get manager who understands modern football ✅
Click to expand...

The bold being a big part. We have lost a great deal of the passion and fight that we had in the ranks that season, some through injury....some through age....and some through choice.

I don't for one minute believe we had an uber talented outfit that season, nor do I believe it to have been a weakened league. But you had Hendo, Egan, Basham, Baldock, JOC, Sharp, McGoldrick.... A real mix of experience and ambition, all of which wanted to run themselves through brick walls for one and other. A few of them are still here, but we have seen long term injuries....and even then, it's been a tough ask to galvanise players who don't buy into it all in the same respect. In ever line of the pitch we had leaders willing to throw themselves on the line...

If you lack talent, passion and effort can still carry you a long way. It has all gone for one reason of another!
 
There were plenty of times when the overlapping centre backs didn't work or couldn't get out from the back, play 4-3-3 and press Norwood wasn't some kind of genius tactic that nobody could work out to nullify that system, but even when that happened, we still had a solid defence and functioning wingbacks who operated more as part of the midfield than defence.

The main strength of that team was togetherness and belief, individually they were nothing special, but as a team they were fantastic. On the face of it our recruitment after promotion looked rubbish, but most of it was to enhance the existing team, Duffy was the only real loss from the season before.
 

Working Class Hero said:
I need to stop opening threads about the 19/20 season, as they just make me feel sad.

Why oh why did the world have to go to shit THAT particular year?
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Completely and utterly agree it was like two different worlds before and after that Norwich game, I'm convinced we would have reached the cup final that season, it was definitely the worst thing at the worst time.

Even the 3 victories after that seemed so hollow and didn't even feel like it was watching us.

I have never seen replayed footage of Stamford Bridge 94, nor Wigan in 07, added to that list is behind closed doors football, after leeds in lock down season I didn't see a single game and didn't even care for the scores.
 
One thing that always rankles is how with how things were we came back from lockdown and looked like the unfittest team ever.
 
Dean Henderson made so many magnificent saves. He must have been worth 10-15 points on his own. Ramsdale looked as bad as Grbic for the first half of the following season and the damage was done. All good teams are built from the back.
 
The thing about that team for me was they could all play 1 touch pass and move football which is essential in the modern game, unlike the present lot..... 😂
 
Ron_Justice said:
Yep agree and I don't think a single season, in any league, is long enough to 'carve niches' and develop enough tactical habits to ensure we're able to be greater than the sum of our parts.
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What we did in Wilder's first stint was once in a lifetime stuff in terms of what we achieved and how quickly it happened. After all the time we spent in League One, being a Preston or Bristol City floater would have been seen as a success, never mind finishing top half in the Premier League three seasons later.

The main factors in our success were Basham and O'Connell in the key overlapping positions. The other spots could more or less be filled by anyone but those two playing each week were what made it work. Once JOC got injured and Bash's age caught up with him, we lost our identity and relied on MGW and/or Ndiaye to dig us out each week.

Now we lack both a system and any talent to get us through, it's purely hoping that the opposition have a bad day and Premier League teams against us rarely have, even the shit ones.
 
WF10BLADE said:
One thing that always rankles is how with how things were we came back from lockdown and looked like the unfittest team ever.
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All the players were being monitored during lockdown to keep an eye on their training schedule and Wilder joked that they wouldn't be allowed to fit the monitor to the dog and send it on a long walk.

But they didn't appear as fit after lockdown.

In fact watching our lack of athleticism this season reminds me of the post-lockown period.

Something needs to be addressed before next season.
 
bornablade said:
All the players were being monitored during lockdown to keep an eye on their training schedule and Wilder joked that they wouldn't be allowed to fit the monitor to the dog and send it on a long walk.

But they didn't appear as fit after lockdown.

In fact watching our lack of athleticism this season reminds me of the post-lockown period.

Something needs to be addressed before next season.
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Exactly this. It's as if in that period that Fleck, Basham, Stevens, Sharp, Egan all aged about 5 years. The fact that this is the first season where we've moved on from them shows how hard we've found it to replace them....
 
Every system gets figured out it took until the latter part of 2019 2020. The loss of Jack O'Connell obviously was also a big impact. Teams adjusted as they became familiar with how we played. The overlapping was fine against championship sides who had similar or worse squads.

Our threat became less as they funneled us off into the corners and were ready in case any cross came in. Hence the second season was up one side back down again over the other side rinse and repeat. But the biggest change was in how teams attacked. They may have gone wide initially in the attack but once in our half they cut inside going more directly at goal.Going past Nowood etc. Another aspect of this was speed of transition. They moved it quickly. Connected to this was balls over the too with Egan getting caught on the turn

From a squad perspective we were well drilled, fit and positive. Which is the exact opposite to what we have this season. Momentum creates belief losing runs erode belief. We don't have an obvious style of play. And obviously we have a good few that want to leave. A few more that want to stay but we should get rid.

Ndiaye and MGW could still conjure up chances even without much support. McAtee has moments of brilliance but Doyle is a huge loss. He had alot of football intelligence. Sitting deeper he was putting us on the front foot with the quality of passing. McGoldrick was able to hold it up under pressure allowing support to get forward. Like Doyle he had. got football intelligence.

Who in the current squad has football intelligence?
Basham
Hamer
BBD
Arblaster.
Possibly Peck.

That's about it.
 
Ron_Justice said:
That 1st CWAK season in the PL was probably the high watermark for me as a Blade and a return to the Championship has got me wondering; even with decent summer recruitment, can we go again, as soon as next year?

Last time we went up and actually made a fist of it, we did it on the back of a 3 year re-build. 3 years of bringing in players to suit a novel system but also, and with one eye on CW's recent comments about certain unnamed players, players of a certain character.

I wonder, without the surprise of the Overlappers (because I doubt there's another unique way of playing waiting to be discovered), would the right characters, brought together via a modest budget, be enough to fare better in the PL than this season?

Personally, I'm not sure a year in the Championship is long enough to build a group, on a budget, that has a strong enough identity. To develop a squad that's so aligned with each other, tactically, that they can play on instinct, without fear, and be greater than the sum of the parts.

So what do we think, last time around what was more important? Was it The System or the Personnel? Is the conversation around 'right type' too overblown or do we need to pay special attention to the characters of the personnel, given we're going to working with a modest budget by todays standards?
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Was both

Wilder had freedom and was able to assemble the squad he wanted. No 5th choice options like the second season.

If you allow a manager timet
Ron_Justice said:
That 1st CWAK season in the PL was probably the high watermark for me as a Blade and a return to the Championship has got me wondering; even with decent summer recruitment, can we go again, as soon as next year?

Last time we went up and actually made a fist of it, we did it on the back of a 3 year re-build. 3 years of bringing in players to suit a novel system but also, and with one eye on CW's recent comments about certain unnamed players, players of a certain character.

I wonder, without the surprise of the Overlappers (because I doubt there's another unique way of playing waiting to be discovered), would the right characters, brought together via a modest budget, be enough to fare better in the PL than this season?

Personally, I'm not sure a year in the Championship is long enough to build a group, on a budget, that has a strong enough identity. To develop a squad that's so aligned with each other, tactically, that they can play on instinct, without fear, and be greater than the sum of the parts.

So what do we think, last time around what was more important? Was it The System or the Personnel? Is the conversation around 'right type' too overblown or do we need to pay special attention to the characters of the personnel, given we're going to working with a modest budget by today’s standards?
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Was both.

Wilder had freedom and seemed to be able to sign his first choice players.

Second season we were scraping the barrel finding players.

A manager who gets his targets and is allowed to build for a few years will do well.
 
WF10BLADE said:
Completely and utterly agree it was like two different worlds before and after that Norwich game, I'm convinced we would have reached the cup final that season, it was definitely the worst thing at the worst time.

Even the 3 victories after that seemed so hollow and didn't even feel like it was watching us.

I have never seen replayed footage of Stamford Bridge 94, nor Wigan in 07, added to that list is behind closed doors football, after leeds in lock down season I didn't see a single game and didn't even care for the scores.
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I felt exactly the same. Those games after the lockdown restart felt hollow, the following season I completely stopped watching football and I've never got back to watching games as a neutral. Even our promotion felt hollow.

I think it's partly because I know it'll never get that good again for us, it should have been even better but we were robbed of it. I find it hard to get the same enthusiasm now, knowing that it's just not meant to be as a Sheffield United fan.
 
Berkshire Blade said:
It wasn't the personal in terms of individual talent. Only Henderson has really got his foot in the premier league since.
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Agree, think it was the perfect storm of several factors all happening at the same time.

None of our players were particularly talented apart from Duffy, Brooks, McGoldrick and Henderson
however I don't believe many centre backs in world football could have played overlapping centre role better than Basham and O'Connell.

To be a world class level overlapping centre, you needed stamina, intelligence and the ability to pay in midfield and even as winger attacking down the wing. We were so lucky because both Basham and O'Connell were the best cross country runners at the club with great stamina.
Basham has played as centre back but was also very experienced playing as midfielder and as right back, so this role was perfect for him.
He could easily inter change with Baldrick and those 2 built up a great understanding down the right wing. Basham could also become as extra man in midfield, similar to how Stones plays for Man City. Bash was also encouraged to get forward and pooped up with goals too.

O'Connell had also played as centre back but was also experienced at playing as left back and he had a great cross.
Again we were lucky in that O'Conell and Enda could also inter change and they also built up a great understanding down the left wing.
For 3 year our whole defences hardly seemed to ever be injured, incredible really, even injury prone McGoldrick hardly picked up any injuries.
In Wilders early years we never had hardly any injuries but in later years its gone to the other extreme with almost everyone having injuries.

We also had the opportunity to practice a style of play with little pressure in league 1, building a base/ a foundation from ground zero.
We became such a well oiled machine every player seemed to know where to pass without looking.
This season if Wilder tries new tactics or tries to experiment it can easily lead to losing 4-0.

Some people say we were found out in the 2nd season but I diisagree.
We might have been a sunrise to the fans of other clubs but we were never a surprise to the management of PL clubs.
Every club already knew our tactics well in advance but they couldn't stop it. Lets be honest we played similar tactics every single match.

Our demise really started when we lost O'Connell. Also even Basham was out for the early part of that 2nd season.
Also let's not forget that in the 1st season we won loads of matches 1-0 or 2-1 (tight matches)
where as in the 2nd season we weren't as bad as people think, we tended to lose many matches 1-0 or 2-1 (again tight matches), so it's small margins.
In the 2nd season we really struggled to score mainly because we struggled to use the overlapping centre tactic as effectively
due to the personnel (replacement centre backs) not being as good at it.
 
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I very much doubt we can rebuild in one season we had a good squad in L1 - 100 points crest of a wave momentum few good additions and had it not been for the Coutts injury we could have been playoffs possibly more. Then we went again and as Wilder said we had a look season 1 second season see ya. We won't be that lucky in the transfer market again in my opinion. I see mid table at best, what i would love is that our best players are actually our players and not loans. Yes we will always sell it's the Blades way. Roll on the championship 46 games Tues sat if we compete I'll take that right now..UTB
 

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